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Over the years it seems the EU is more interested in the fines rather than reducing google s footprint to allow domestic competitors, despite the evidence about

Over the years it seems the EU is more interested in the fines rather than reducing google s footprint to allow domestic competitors, despite the evidence about how the internet works

capableweb 6y ago
Is it possible that the EU might be investing in three angles at the same time? Fine Google because they continue to not give a shit about privacy, reduce dependency on Google's services by using alternatives and give more grants to local startups working on technical problems.
- RobertoG 6y ago
  Also it's possible that there is somebody pushing one way in Brussels, and some friends of Google and company, pushing the other and we get only a diluted and distorted version of what would work best.
op03 6y ago
They have no moves to make. No one really has too much faith in EU startups or their tech sector and that includes the largest EU non tech firms who have spent tons trying to jump start local tech.
- capableweb 6y ago
  If you're stuck in the typical "Silicon Valley" information bubble, probably no one has much faith in EU companies. But for the rest of us who live either outside that bubble or outside of the US in general, lots of good has come out of EU, even startups, that we rely on daily.
  - lawrenceyan 6y ago
    Do you maybe have a quick list of companies you could highlight from the EU? Asking genuinely here.
    - BlueTemplar 6y ago
      Skype[1] and Nokia before they were bought ? There are many more... [1] https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/end-to-end-encryption-european-internet-forum/ https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/end-to-end-encryption-euro...
badsectoracula 6y ago
But EU is just the countries that make up the union, all they can do is these fines. The rest is up to the companies inside the EU.
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  All they can do is the fines? I dont think so, their main role is legislation, some of which would push some of google out of the way.
  - badsectoracula 6y ago
    Fines are part of the legislation though. What sort of other legislation could they do to push Google out of the way in a way that doesn't actively discriminate against Google but also applies to all companies (both inside and outside the EU)?
  - zepto 6y ago
    Exactly what would ‘push some of Google out of the way’ other than straight up protectionism?
    - cblconfederate 6y ago
      they call it antitrust action in polite company
      - zepto 6y ago
        Sure but what remedy would push Google out of the way?
        cblconfederate 6y ago
        well definitely not fines. even unbundling google search from ads in the EU would be major. i m sure they can come up with a lot if they care more than just revenue from fines
908B64B197 6y ago
Here's the thing: Fines are a fast and easy political win against these "evil foreign tech giants". Just like rent seeking. Bootstrapping an ecosystem capable of spawning and growing global market leaders is hard. And it would require some very unpopular measures. - Weak/Non-Existent non-compete - Make it easier to hire and fire employees - Competitive approach to retaining talent - Lower tax rate for tech companies instead of endless government grants/subsidies The last one in particular is critical. In some EU countries, you can already justify your 5th employee's complete salary having a dedicated "accountant" whose only job is to apply for government grants.
- BlueTemplar 6y ago
  Even that wouldn't be enough at this point. The only way would be to completely block the GAFAMs (and their Russian and Chinese equivalents of course) from operating in the EU. Only then alternatives might actually be able to gain a foothold.
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    That's an admission of defeat to resort to these measures. Why not simply compete? Europe sure has the brains, give them the freedom to use them!
    - cblconfederate 6y ago
      Of course it is, Europe has lost long ago. You can't compete, nobody competes with US big tech. And europe has nothing to lose
      - 908B64B197 6y ago
        Have Europeans governments asked themselves why it is so?
        BlueTemplar 6y ago
        Because they let infocom companies like Skype and Nokia to be sold to outsiders ?

Over the years it seems the EU is more interested in the fines rather than reducing google s footprint to allow domestic competitors, despite the evidence about how the internet works

capableweb 6y ago

Is it possible that the EU might be investing in three angles at the same time? Fine Google because they continue to not give a shit about privacy, reduce dependency on Google's services by using alternatives and give more grants to local startups working on technical problems.

RobertoG 6y ago
Also it's possible that there is somebody pushing one way in Brussels, and some friends of Google and company, pushing the other and we get only a diluted and distorted version of what would work best.

op03 6y ago

They have no moves to make. No one really has too much faith in EU startups or their tech sector and that includes the largest EU non tech firms who have spent tons trying to jump start local tech.

capableweb 6y ago
If you're stuck in the typical "Silicon Valley" information bubble, probably no one has much faith in EU companies. But for the rest of us who live either outside that bubble or outside of the US in general, lots of good has come out of EU, even startups, that we rely on daily.
- lawrenceyan 6y ago
  Do you maybe have a quick list of companies you could highlight from the EU? Asking genuinely here.
  - BlueTemplar 6y ago
    Skype[1] and Nokia before they were bought ? There are many more... [1] https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/end-to-end-encryption-european-internet-forum/ https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/end-to-end-encryption-euro...

badsectoracula 6y ago

But EU is just the countries that make up the union, all they can do is these fines. The rest is up to the companies inside the EU.

cblconfederate 6y ago
All they can do is the fines? I dont think so, their main role is legislation, some of which would push some of google out of the way.
- badsectoracula 6y ago
  Fines are part of the legislation though. What sort of other legislation could they do to push Google out of the way in a way that doesn't actively discriminate against Google but also applies to all companies (both inside and outside the EU)?
- zepto 6y ago
  Exactly what would ‘push some of Google out of the way’ other than straight up protectionism?
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    they call it antitrust action in polite company
    - zepto 6y ago
      Sure but what remedy would push Google out of the way?
      - cblconfederate 6y ago
        well definitely not fines. even unbundling google search from ads in the EU would be major. i m sure they can come up with a lot if they care more than just revenue from fines

908B64B197 6y ago

Here's the thing: Fines are a fast and easy political win against these "evil foreign tech giants". Just like rent seeking. Bootstrapping an ecosystem capable of spawning and growing global market leaders is hard. And it would require some very unpopular measures. - Weak/Non-Existent non-compete - Make it easier to hire and fire employees - Competitive approach to retaining talent - Lower tax rate for tech companies instead of endless government grants/subsidies The last one in particular is critical. In some EU countries, you can already justify your 5th employee's complete salary having a dedicated "accountant" whose only job is to apply for government grants.

BlueTemplar 6y ago
Even that wouldn't be enough at this point. The only way would be to completely block the GAFAMs (and their Russian and Chinese equivalents of course) from operating in the EU. Only then alternatives might actually be able to gain a foothold.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  That's an admission of defeat to resort to these measures. Why not simply compete? Europe sure has the brains, give them the freedom to use them!
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    Of course it is, Europe has lost long ago. You can't compete, nobody competes with US big tech. And europe has nothing to lose
    - 908B64B197 6y ago
      Have Europeans governments asked themselves why it is so?
      - BlueTemplar 6y ago
        Because they let infocom companies like Skype and Nokia to be sold to outsiders ?