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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_Cit... Stop and Frisk is widely believed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_Cit... Stop and Frisk is widely believed to be proof that police are disproportionately targeting black people, and it seems interactions with police end in death more for black people than white people.

nailer 6y ago
There are many other reasons some groups may have higher interactions with the police than others, including high rates of absentee fathers, drug addiction and poverty.
- bluntfang 6y ago
  Sure, and the war on drugs delivered crack to black people and got them addicted and put them in jail. You're being obtuse if you think black people are more likely to be absentee fathers, drug addicted, and impoverished by the nature of their genetics.
  - nailer 6y ago
    I didn't state that it was because of genetics.
xibalba 6y ago
A link to a Wikipedia article about stop-and-frisk in NYC is not exactly compelling data for the extraordinary claim of one racial group "systemically killing" another. But fine, let's take a cursory look at this article: search for the words "murder", "death", and "kill". All hits yield no references to systemic murder of black people by another racial group. There is, however, a discussion about how minority groups are disproportionally represented as both victims and perpetrators of violent crimes in NYC. Furthermore, the NYC police force is majority minority. [1] > interactions with police end in death more for black people than white people. There are high quality studies which provide compelling evidence against this claim [2][3], in both absolute and statistically "controlled for" terms. What's more, the killing of black people by police is extremely rare: 0.0033% or 33 per 1 million. [4] It is stunning and scary to me that people are so willing to (rightly) call out Trump for distributing misinformation, and yet, on the other hand, are perfectly willing to traffic in it themselves on certain topics. The end result of both is stoking unnecessary, divisive, and dangerous fear in people. [1] https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/public_information/department-ethnic-gender-rank-recap-report.pdf https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/public_inform... [2] Johnson, David J., et al. "Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 116.32 (2019): 15877-15882. [3] Fryer Jr, Roland G. "An empirical analysis of racial differences in police use of force." Journal of Political Economy 127.3 (2019): 1210-1261. APA [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/polic...
- bluntfang 6y ago
  Are you actually saying stop and frisk isn't compelling data for systemic racism? Damn man, that's pretty much common knowledge at this point.
  - xibalba 6y ago
    You claimed that there is a racial/ethnic group in American that is systemically killing another racial/ethnic group, which was outright nonsense. That is what I was addressing. But, yes, since you bring it up, I don't believe stop-and-frisk is compelling data for systemic racism. And your appeal to common knowledge is a logical fallacy. As Bloomberg said, there are ethnic/racial groups that are responsible for a dramatically disproportionate share of the crime in NYC. (By the way, the victims of those crimes are almost always within the same ethnic group as the perpetrator) This is especially true of violent crimes and crimes involving guns. So how do you get those guns off the street and protect people? Make it clear to the individuals who carry guns and are at risk of committing guns crimes that they will be caught if they are carrying (via stop-and-frisk). I often wonder, for people who object so vociferously to things like stop-and-frisk, do they really think the hassle of getting stopped by a police officer exceeds the risk to the lives of people of color?

nailer 6y ago

There are many other reasons some groups may have higher interactions with the police than others, including high rates of absentee fathers, drug addiction and poverty.

bluntfang 6y ago
Sure, and the war on drugs delivered crack to black people and got them addicted and put them in jail. You're being obtuse if you think black people are more likely to be absentee fathers, drug addicted, and impoverished by the nature of their genetics.
- nailer 6y ago
  I didn't state that it was because of genetics.

xibalba 6y ago

A link to a Wikipedia article about stop-and-frisk in NYC is not exactly compelling data for the extraordinary claim of one racial group "systemically killing" another. But fine, let's take a cursory look at this article: search for the words "murder", "death", and "kill". All hits yield no references to systemic murder of black people by another racial group. There is, however, a discussion about how minority groups are disproportionally represented as both victims and perpetrators of violent crimes in NYC. Furthermore, the NYC police force is majority minority. [1] > interactions with police end in death more for black people than white people. There are high quality studies which provide compelling evidence against this claim [2][3], in both absolute and statistically "controlled for" terms. What's more, the killing of black people by police is extremely rare: 0.0033% or 33 per 1 million. [4] It is stunning and scary to me that people are so willing to (rightly) call out Trump for distributing misinformation, and yet, on the other hand, are perfectly willing to traffic in it themselves on certain topics. The end result of both is stoking unnecessary, divisive, and dangerous fear in people. [1] https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/public_information/department-ethnic-gender-rank-recap-report.pdf https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/public_inform... [2] Johnson, David J., et al. "Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 116.32 (2019): 15877-15882. [3] Fryer Jr, Roland G. "An empirical analysis of racial differences in police use of force." Journal of Political Economy 127.3 (2019): 1210-1261. APA [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/polic...

bluntfang 6y ago
Are you actually saying stop and frisk isn't compelling data for systemic racism? Damn man, that's pretty much common knowledge at this point.
- xibalba 6y ago
  You claimed that there is a racial/ethnic group in American that is systemically killing another racial/ethnic group, which was outright nonsense. That is what I was addressing. But, yes, since you bring it up, I don't believe stop-and-frisk is compelling data for systemic racism. And your appeal to common knowledge is a logical fallacy. As Bloomberg said, there are ethnic/racial groups that are responsible for a dramatically disproportionate share of the crime in NYC. (By the way, the victims of those crimes are almost always within the same ethnic group as the perpetrator) This is especially true of violent crimes and crimes involving guns. So how do you get those guns off the street and protect people? Make it clear to the individuals who carry guns and are at risk of committing guns crimes that they will be caught if they are carrying (via stop-and-frisk). I often wonder, for people who object so vociferously to things like stop-and-frisk, do they really think the hassle of getting stopped by a police officer exceeds the risk to the lives of people of color?