4 ms·

Wayeb: A Complex Event Processing and Forecasting Engine

75 points by Averroito 6y ago

cduzz 6y ago
I'm not sure about the tool itself, but the license seems... angry. I certainly understand modern annoyance at BigCorp(tm) reusing your work and making a gazillion dollars off of it, but this license seems to preclude from even evaluating it for anything, except for the hobbyist event processor.
- explorigin 6y ago
  When you write the code, you can do what you want. BigCorp has done a lot of stuff to be angry about. I don't see a problem with the license.
  - sneak 6y ago
    Proprietary licenses are a problem because they limit your freedom to do what you wish with the software. Unnecessarily limiting the freedoms of others is bad.
    - explorigin 6y ago
      > Unnecessarily limiting the freedoms of others is bad. What is at stake here is who determines when it is unnecessary? Again that right is afforded to the author.
    - aaron-santos 6y ago
      How do you square this with the freedom of the author to license their software in whichever way they see fit?
      - sneak 6y ago
        Licenses are only ever used to remove freedoms (from others), never to add them. The author does not have any reasonable entitlement to use force to prevent others from using their software in ways they don’t like.
    - dismantlethesun 6y ago
      I am okay with it. Our software is proprietary licenced, and we consume proprietary licence projects all the time (e.g. Highcharts, Nginx, ElasticSearch, etc.)
    - polotics 6y ago
      Lol like the freedom to get fairly compensated for the value of one's work?
  - chuckSu 6y ago
    Me write the code. Me do what I want... Arrrrgh!!!
  - evgen 6y ago
    I don't see a problem with it either. The license screams "go away" and I am happy to follow its suggestion. Since there are already well-established open-source alternatives in this area I am predicting this one will die slow and quiet. The theory is interesting, but unless you are in a real complex area it looks to me like application logic or a DSL paired with existing CEP or event sourcing systems can get you close to the patterns they are trying to infer here.
    - Averroito 6y ago
      Exactly. If you are happy with the current status of the "free" and "open source" world (i.e., you have no problem with all the unpaid labor getting exploited by big tech through hierarchical structures pretending to be flat and "equal"), then, please, do go away. You won't be missed. PS: This is a research prototype to test novel ideas in the field. It's definitely not a finished product and should not be used as one (it's not allowed by the license in any case).
      - evgen 6y ago
        So it is both angry and a toy. Gotcha. Nice find!
        Averroito 6y ago
        That seems like coming from someone with a deep knowledge of how research is conducted and the purpose of research prototypes. Anyway, I've already spent too much time on trying to reply to this kind of passive-aggressive sarcasm (why did you even bother commenting in the first place?). No more. Goodbye.
      - cduzz 6y ago
        There is enormous merit to the notion that "Free software has been monetized by GigaCorp(tm) and their ilk to the detriment of society." The world is build on the work of those who came before; that said, sometimes rather than standing on the shoulders of giants we get trampled underfoot. That said, intellectual property law is a deep and dark hole. It is easy to make mistakes from which you can not recover. https://choosealicense.com/no-permission/ https://choosealicense.com/no-permission/ Seems to be the license you want, but I am not an attorney. And of course, you may want to take it off of github and publish it yourself, so as to not run afoul of the github TOS.
  - playpause 6y ago
    Sure you can do what you want, but if you want people to actually use it, it is very silly to write a bespoke licence. And even sillier to write a bespoke one if you don’t know how licences work or what they’re for.
    - Averroito 6y ago
      The issue is about the kind of use. What do we mean by "people using it"? If we are talking about exploitation, then the license prohibits it. If we are talking about experimentation, the license allows it within certain limits. A bespoke license is indeed required if you need to do something more advanced. Suggestions are more than welcome on how to avoid this.
      - playpause 6y ago
        > A bespoke license is indeed required if you need to do something more advanced. Are you a lawyer, or have you had a lawyer review your bespoke licence?
- Averroito 6y ago
  That's a valid point. But I guess the non-hobbyist can always contact the author and ask for permission. If taking the time to contact the author seems like too much, then we're probably back to the "hobbyist" category.
- rozab 6y ago
  Not sure about the downvoting, the license is extremely strange. Forbidding individuals from sharing any changes they've made to the software is the complete opposite of what most licenses do. Also, CC explicitly discourages use of their licenses for software. This particular license just doesn't make any sense for code and I'm pretty sure the use cases the author has in mind are permitted by fair use anyway. https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-apply-a-creative-commons-license-to-software https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-apply-a-creative-comm...
  - dismantlethesun 6y ago
    It's basically just commercially licenced, except if you're a non-profit / personal user. They also do not want your pull requests, as it is a open source (lower case), without community involvement.
  - cbsmith 6y ago
    Yeah, it seems like a very unwise choice unfortunately.
  - Sephr 6y ago
    Note that the GitHub terms of service overrides this licenses restriction on sharing changes. You are free to fork this repository as the owner had to agree to the GitHub terms of service to create their GitHub account.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
AndrewKemendo 6y ago
I am pretty convinced that stream/event forecasting is going to be the "next big thing" in AI - and this looks exactly like the kind of work needed to make progress. This is actually really exciting because I don't see a lot of event stream forecasting tools or research out there and Numenta has totally stalled out as far as I can tell. I need to dig in further to the background papers [1] but from the looks of things in that lab [2] work on complex event recognition ("heterogeneous and interdependent data streams") is exactly in the ballpark that is necessary. [1]https://arxiv.org/pdf/1804.10388.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1804.10388.pdf [2]https://arxiv.org/pdf/1802.04086v1.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1802.04086v1.pdf
- kordlessagain 6y ago
  > I don't see a lot of event stream forecasting tools Uh, Splunk?
  - Averroito 6y ago
    WSO2 seems to have some forecasting capabilities. https://docs.wso2.com/display/CEP400/Forecast https://docs.wso2.com/display/CEP400/Forecast
justin_oaks 6y ago
This is the first I've heard of complete event processing (CEP) in probably 10 years. I remember being interested in CEP when it was said that it was like writing database queries against event streams instead of static data. I tried some CEP software called Esper over 10 years ago. I wrote a query that did some simple thing like counting how many events of each type were received within a window. After a short time, my application ran out of memory. Apparently each event that contributed to the count was being retained in memory, rather than just relevant information, such as the event type and the count. That didn't seem like a viable way to perform CEP, so I gave up on that. I assume they've improved since I just googled for Esper and it's still around. https://www.espertech.com/esper/ https://www.espertech.com/esper/ Since I haven't heard much about CEP lately, do people use it, or do they use some competing paradigm?
- cbsmith 6y ago
  You mean Complex Event Processing yeah? The term you hear these days is "event sourcing", but yes, it's a pretty hot area these days.
stevenalowe 6y ago
CEP is awesome; no idea what this software is though- Suggest less hostility and schizophrenia in the license; was so disturbing I could not even read past the second paragraph. At least it wasn’t written in all caps.

75 points by Averroito 6y ago

I'm not sure about the tool itself, but the license seems... angry. I certainly understand modern annoyance at BigCorp(tm) reusing your work and making a gazillion dollars off of it, but this license seems to preclude from even evaluating it for anything, except for the hobbyist event processor.

explorigin 6y ago
When you write the code, you can do what you want. BigCorp has done a lot of stuff to be angry about. I don't see a problem with the license.
- sneak 6y ago
  Proprietary licenses are a problem because they limit your freedom to do what you wish with the software. Unnecessarily limiting the freedoms of others is bad.
  - explorigin 6y ago
    > Unnecessarily limiting the freedoms of others is bad. What is at stake here is who determines when it is unnecessary? Again that right is afforded to the author.
  - aaron-santos 6y ago
    How do you square this with the freedom of the author to license their software in whichever way they see fit?
    - sneak 6y ago
      Licenses are only ever used to remove freedoms (from others), never to add them. The author does not have any reasonable entitlement to use force to prevent others from using their software in ways they don’t like.
  - dismantlethesun 6y ago
    I am okay with it. Our software is proprietary licenced, and we consume proprietary licence projects all the time (e.g. Highcharts, Nginx, ElasticSearch, etc.)
  - polotics 6y ago
    Lol like the freedom to get fairly compensated for the value of one's work?
- chuckSu 6y ago
  Me write the code. Me do what I want... Arrrrgh!!!
- evgen 6y ago
  I don't see a problem with it either. The license screams "go away" and I am happy to follow its suggestion. Since there are already well-established open-source alternatives in this area I am predicting this one will die slow and quiet. The theory is interesting, but unless you are in a real complex area it looks to me like application logic or a DSL paired with existing CEP or event sourcing systems can get you close to the patterns they are trying to infer here.
  - Averroito 6y ago
    Exactly. If you are happy with the current status of the "free" and "open source" world (i.e., you have no problem with all the unpaid labor getting exploited by big tech through hierarchical structures pretending to be flat and "equal"), then, please, do go away. You won't be missed. PS: This is a research prototype to test novel ideas in the field. It's definitely not a finished product and should not be used as one (it's not allowed by the license in any case).
    - evgen 6y ago
      So it is both angry and a toy. Gotcha. Nice find!
      - Averroito 6y ago
        That seems like coming from someone with a deep knowledge of how research is conducted and the purpose of research prototypes. Anyway, I've already spent too much time on trying to reply to this kind of passive-aggressive sarcasm (why did you even bother commenting in the first place?). No more. Goodbye.
    - cduzz 6y ago
      There is enormous merit to the notion that "Free software has been monetized by GigaCorp(tm) and their ilk to the detriment of society." The world is build on the work of those who came before; that said, sometimes rather than standing on the shoulders of giants we get trampled underfoot. That said, intellectual property law is a deep and dark hole. It is easy to make mistakes from which you can not recover. https://choosealicense.com/no-permission/ https://choosealicense.com/no-permission/ Seems to be the license you want, but I am not an attorney. And of course, you may want to take it off of github and publish it yourself, so as to not run afoul of the github TOS.
- playpause 6y ago
  Sure you can do what you want, but if you want people to actually use it, it is very silly to write a bespoke licence. And even sillier to write a bespoke one if you don’t know how licences work or what they’re for.
  - Averroito 6y ago
    The issue is about the kind of use. What do we mean by "people using it"? If we are talking about exploitation, then the license prohibits it. If we are talking about experimentation, the license allows it within certain limits. A bespoke license is indeed required if you need to do something more advanced. Suggestions are more than welcome on how to avoid this.
    - playpause 6y ago
      > A bespoke license is indeed required if you need to do something more advanced. Are you a lawyer, or have you had a lawyer review your bespoke licence?
Averroito 6y ago
That's a valid point. But I guess the non-hobbyist can always contact the author and ask for permission. If taking the time to contact the author seems like too much, then we're probably back to the "hobbyist" category.
rozab 6y ago
Not sure about the downvoting, the license is extremely strange. Forbidding individuals from sharing any changes they've made to the software is the complete opposite of what most licenses do. Also, CC explicitly discourages use of their licenses for software. This particular license just doesn't make any sense for code and I'm pretty sure the use cases the author has in mind are permitted by fair use anyway. https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-apply-a-creative-commons-license-to-software https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-apply-a-creative-comm...
- dismantlethesun 6y ago
  It's basically just commercially licenced, except if you're a non-profit / personal user. They also do not want your pull requests, as it is a open source (lower case), without community involvement.
- cbsmith 6y ago
  Yeah, it seems like a very unwise choice unfortunately.
- Sephr 6y ago
  Note that the GitHub terms of service overrides this licenses restriction on sharing changes. You are free to fork this repository as the owner had to agree to the GitHub terms of service to create their GitHub account.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

AndrewKemendo 6y ago

I am pretty convinced that stream/event forecasting is going to be the "next big thing" in AI - and this looks exactly like the kind of work needed to make progress. This is actually really exciting because I don't see a lot of event stream forecasting tools or research out there and Numenta has totally stalled out as far as I can tell. I need to dig in further to the background papers [1] but from the looks of things in that lab [2] work on complex event recognition ("heterogeneous and interdependent data streams") is exactly in the ballpark that is necessary. [1]https://arxiv.org/pdf/1804.10388.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1804.10388.pdf [2]https://arxiv.org/pdf/1802.04086v1.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1802.04086v1.pdf

kordlessagain 6y ago
> I don't see a lot of event stream forecasting tools Uh, Splunk?
- Averroito 6y ago
  WSO2 seems to have some forecasting capabilities. https://docs.wso2.com/display/CEP400/Forecast https://docs.wso2.com/display/CEP400/Forecast

justin_oaks 6y ago

This is the first I've heard of complete event processing (CEP) in probably 10 years. I remember being interested in CEP when it was said that it was like writing database queries against event streams instead of static data. I tried some CEP software called Esper over 10 years ago. I wrote a query that did some simple thing like counting how many events of each type were received within a window. After a short time, my application ran out of memory. Apparently each event that contributed to the count was being retained in memory, rather than just relevant information, such as the event type and the count. That didn't seem like a viable way to perform CEP, so I gave up on that. I assume they've improved since I just googled for Esper and it's still around. https://www.espertech.com/esper/ https://www.espertech.com/esper/ Since I haven't heard much about CEP lately, do people use it, or do they use some competing paradigm?

cbsmith 6y ago
You mean Complex Event Processing yeah? The term you hear these days is "event sourcing", but yes, it's a pretty hot area these days.

stevenalowe 6y ago

CEP is awesome; no idea what this software is though- Suggest less hostility and schizophrenia in the license; was so disturbing I could not even read past the second paragraph. At least it wasn’t written in all caps.