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The M1 is a revolution and upcoming M2, M3 and so forth will be strong evolutions. Apple has a good track record of improving their chips year over year. Look a

The M1 is a revolution and upcoming M2, M3 and so forth will be strong evolutions. Apple has a good track record of improving their chips year over year. Look at initial comments of the iPhone by the competition. They were all laughing. A decade later they are not. With full control over the hardware and not relying on Intel for the processor, Apple is aiming to reproduce its iPhone success in PCs. They have everything going for them. The future looks bleak for Intel and AMD. They are stuck evolving a 30 year-old architecture. In fact, this is where Apple shines in terms of long-term strategy and execution. They are able to create a revolution with a new product/architecture (iPod, iPhone, iPad and now PC), then iterate to make it evolve over time. In doing so, they create new markets. I really feel like the M1 is an inflection point in the personal computers market. Can't wait to see how Qualcomm and Nvidia (with the acquisition of ARM), will respond.

someday_somehow 6y ago
> The future looks bleak for Intel and AMD. They are stuck evolving a 30 year-old architecture. ARM is over 30 years old as well.
- klelatti 6y ago
  64 bit Arm is ten years old - if you dispense with 32 bit as Apple has then there is no legacy to carry forward.
- martin_drapeau 6y ago
  My point is that PC architecture still remains CPU + GPU + RAM mostly separate communicating over a large bus. The M1 combines this all in a SoC.
johannes1234321 6y ago
> With full control over the hardware and not relying on Intel for the processor, Apple is aiming to reproduce its iPhone success in PCs. With Mac desktops and mobile devices getting similar in hardware the question is how much longer it will take, till you can plug your phone to a screen, keyboard and mouse and end up with a decent desktop for most use cases. (There are tricky questions in that for instance whether one can plug it out for a break or something and how well such a thing would recover and a question whether one would be able to separate work and private life in such a world, but all should be solvable)
- n_kr 6y ago
  It is possible to do that wirelessly with samsung dex already. I use it regularly, with an external mouse/keyboard for dex desktop on a TV, and I can use the phone normally. They supported linux on Dex for a while, but that is unsupported now. If Samsung brings a linux desktop with Miracast as an alternative to their own desktop, I might just switch full time to that.
  - johannes1234321 6y ago
    There is a difference between the MacOS environment and existing software vs. Android apps on a desktop-like environment. If Apple executes that well the transition could be mostly fluent, hardly noticed. With the transition to Apple Silicon right now being the most radical step in the process.
- compsciphd 6y ago
  I built a system years ago that did this one better. imagine your iphone (with its 128 or 256GB) of storage being the storage device of your computer. But not necessarily the CPU. When you're at a more powerful computer (say a laptop or mini), you can plug in and all your processes now run on faster computer. When you want to go remote, you migrate the processes to the portable device. imagine being able to carry a single computer in your pocket like this betwen home and work and not having to carry a laptop. http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/files/wpid-compsac2006-fordist.pdf http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/files/wpid-compsac2006-fordis...
- TYPE_FASTER 6y ago
  PinePhone is getting there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBeza4UNOm8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBeza4UNOm8
- thebruce87m 6y ago
  Samsung DeX already does that. I plugged a colleagues phone in to this screen and it was pretty cool: https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/electriq-eiq-15fhdpmt-15.6-touch-screen-type-c-portable-monitor-eiq-15fhdpmt/version.asp https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/electriq-eiq-15fhdpmt-15.6-t... The screen has a USB A port, so a keyboard and mouse were useable with the dongle. It also has two USB-C ports allowing you to charge the phone through the screen. Touch screen was excellent too.
miloignis 6y ago
I agree re Intel, but AMD's been doing some nice revolution/evolution type moves themselves with chiplet / Zen1/2/3. Architecture makes a difference, but I don't think it's as big of a factor as the internal innovations. Dream setup, maybe AMD would hop on the RISC-V or OpenPOWER trains if it does end up looking like x86 is going the way of the dodo.
stevievee 6y ago
The competitors will be fine unless Apple broadens away from SoCs (which isn't in line with Apple's walled garden approach, so I doubt it). There will always be a market where footprint and performance per watt are not issues. ie. I don't think the SoC vs CPU debate is settled.
- martin_drapeau 6y ago
  I believe that market will shrink. SoC brings many advantages. I think it will overtake the majority of the market. Time will tell.
  - gumby 6y ago
    We thought that in the 1990s and a lot of VC money was spent on it. I'd like to see it happen for technical reasons, but still I wait to see it happen.
- ksec 6y ago
  >There will always be a market where footprint and performance per watt are not issues. Unfortunately even that is gone. If you need multiple cores, Pref Watt Scale up with each core adding to it. Unless you want absolute single thread performances. But even that Apple seems to be winning. We have enter the age of TDP Computing.
altarius 6y ago
> They are stuck evolving a 30 year-old architecture. ARM is older than you may think :) AFAIR the ARM instruction set was developed just a couple years after the Intel 8086, 1983 vs 1978. They're both nearing 40 years, but not that modern x86-64 or ARM64 are the same as those old ISAs.
- sliken 6y ago
  True, but ARM, and apple in particular have been willing to discard compatibility with previous generations. I believe the M1 for instance is not 32 bit compatible. ARM also was willing to do some house cleaning when they designed the 64 bit architecture. X86-64s on the other hand have compatibility not just to 32 bit, but also 16 bit. You can still boot dos 1.0 if you wanted.
Zardoz84 6y ago
AMD not had license to make ARM cpus ? https://www.extremetech.com/computing/181867-amds-project-skybridge-new-arm-and-x86-chips-that-are-pin-compatible https://www.extremetech.com/computing/181867-amds-project-sk... Form my point of view, they only need to replace the decoding units and, perhaps, the simd units of a Zen core to have an arm cpu.

someday_somehow 6y ago

> The future looks bleak for Intel and AMD. They are stuck evolving a 30 year-old architecture. ARM is over 30 years old as well.

klelatti 6y ago
64 bit Arm is ten years old - if you dispense with 32 bit as Apple has then there is no legacy to carry forward.
martin_drapeau 6y ago
My point is that PC architecture still remains CPU + GPU + RAM mostly separate communicating over a large bus. The M1 combines this all in a SoC.

johannes1234321 6y ago

> With full control over the hardware and not relying on Intel for the processor, Apple is aiming to reproduce its iPhone success in PCs. With Mac desktops and mobile devices getting similar in hardware the question is how much longer it will take, till you can plug your phone to a screen, keyboard and mouse and end up with a decent desktop for most use cases. (There are tricky questions in that for instance whether one can plug it out for a break or something and how well such a thing would recover and a question whether one would be able to separate work and private life in such a world, but all should be solvable)

n_kr 6y ago
It is possible to do that wirelessly with samsung dex already. I use it regularly, with an external mouse/keyboard for dex desktop on a TV, and I can use the phone normally. They supported linux on Dex for a while, but that is unsupported now. If Samsung brings a linux desktop with Miracast as an alternative to their own desktop, I might just switch full time to that.
- johannes1234321 6y ago
  There is a difference between the MacOS environment and existing software vs. Android apps on a desktop-like environment. If Apple executes that well the transition could be mostly fluent, hardly noticed. With the transition to Apple Silicon right now being the most radical step in the process.
compsciphd 6y ago
I built a system years ago that did this one better. imagine your iphone (with its 128 or 256GB) of storage being the storage device of your computer. But not necessarily the CPU. When you're at a more powerful computer (say a laptop or mini), you can plug in and all your processes now run on faster computer. When you want to go remote, you migrate the processes to the portable device. imagine being able to carry a single computer in your pocket like this betwen home and work and not having to carry a laptop. http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/files/wpid-compsac2006-fordist.pdf http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/files/wpid-compsac2006-fordis...
TYPE_FASTER 6y ago
PinePhone is getting there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBeza4UNOm8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBeza4UNOm8
thebruce87m 6y ago
Samsung DeX already does that. I plugged a colleagues phone in to this screen and it was pretty cool: https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/electriq-eiq-15fhdpmt-15.6-touch-screen-type-c-portable-monitor-eiq-15fhdpmt/version.asp https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/electriq-eiq-15fhdpmt-15.6-t... The screen has a USB A port, so a keyboard and mouse were useable with the dongle. It also has two USB-C ports allowing you to charge the phone through the screen. Touch screen was excellent too.

miloignis 6y ago

I agree re Intel, but AMD's been doing some nice revolution/evolution type moves themselves with chiplet / Zen1/2/3. Architecture makes a difference, but I don't think it's as big of a factor as the internal innovations. Dream setup, maybe AMD would hop on the RISC-V or OpenPOWER trains if it does end up looking like x86 is going the way of the dodo.

stevievee 6y ago

The competitors will be fine unless Apple broadens away from SoCs (which isn't in line with Apple's walled garden approach, so I doubt it). There will always be a market where footprint and performance per watt are not issues. ie. I don't think the SoC vs CPU debate is settled.

martin_drapeau 6y ago
I believe that market will shrink. SoC brings many advantages. I think it will overtake the majority of the market. Time will tell.
- gumby 6y ago
  We thought that in the 1990s and a lot of VC money was spent on it. I'd like to see it happen for technical reasons, but still I wait to see it happen.
ksec 6y ago
>There will always be a market where footprint and performance per watt are not issues. Unfortunately even that is gone. If you need multiple cores, Pref Watt Scale up with each core adding to it. Unless you want absolute single thread performances. But even that Apple seems to be winning. We have enter the age of TDP Computing.

altarius 6y ago

> They are stuck evolving a 30 year-old architecture. ARM is older than you may think :) AFAIR the ARM instruction set was developed just a couple years after the Intel 8086, 1983 vs 1978. They're both nearing 40 years, but not that modern x86-64 or ARM64 are the same as those old ISAs.

sliken 6y ago
True, but ARM, and apple in particular have been willing to discard compatibility with previous generations. I believe the M1 for instance is not 32 bit compatible. ARM also was willing to do some house cleaning when they designed the 64 bit architecture. X86-64s on the other hand have compatibility not just to 32 bit, but also 16 bit. You can still boot dos 1.0 if you wanted.

Zardoz84 6y ago

AMD not had license to make ARM cpus ? https://www.extremetech.com/computing/181867-amds-project-skybridge-new-arm-and-x86-chips-that-are-pin-compatible https://www.extremetech.com/computing/181867-amds-project-sk... Form my point of view, they only need to replace the decoding units and, perhaps, the simd units of a Zen core to have an arm cpu.