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I'm starting to think that Brave New World is looking better than where we're actually headed. In BNW, the Alpha and Beta classes are chosen based on objectivel

I'm starting to think that Brave New World is looking better than where we're actually headed. In BNW, the Alpha and Beta classes are chosen based on objectively desirable characteristics. Where we're heading, our top castes will comprise mostly of people who are manipulative, short-term thinkers, vengeful, insecure, arrogant and psychopathic. Not great for society.

me_me_me 6y ago
BNW world is designed to be pure meritocracy. It really does make you think about their world at the end. And its not really evil oppressive world like 1984. Its just purely mechanical construction that to us look like dystopia. I agree we are and are heading is technological aristocracy where tech is used to keep people in line. Divided over crazy theories, societal issues and squabbling over leftovers. Just give them youtube and they come up with the 'hidden truths' and then they fight with secret kabals and 'morons' who don't see the signs. Meanwhile amazons googles and other industries are literally squeezing all small business out of existence. Do you think an Amazon Town could be created where all you shopping has to be done via amazon but you get 20 or 50% off. How far are we from that reality? What I would disagree with is that the people who push this system forward are far from short-term thinkers, vengeful, insecure. They schemed this system up long time ago and look for every angle to push it ahead. How quickly 9/11 from tragedy was turned into patriot act opportunity?
- TT3351 6y ago
  Meritocracy set out from birth, no? Are not all people in that book test tube children with specific selected genomes? I fail to see how creating a class of genetic garbage men, relegated to working with trash for their entire lives is "meritocratic," since advocates of the meritocracy concept generally rely on the system's alleged mobility.
  - ForHackernews 6y ago
    Reminder that "meritocracy" came to prominence in a satirical essay: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy Unfortunately a bunch of folks read that and thought it was a great idea.
    - throwaway2048 6y ago
      Pretty sure people see the first 5 letters, and then decide since they've earned everything in life, its a great idea.
    - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
      From what I recall from reading it, the meritocracy part actually worked incredibly well, yielding tremendous technological advances. It was the secondary effects of pushing meritocracy to extremes that were the problem.
    - Nasrudith 6y ago
      Well of course - his underlying thesis was weak and failed to show how it would be worse off than the status quo. No wonder it caught on when what was mocked is a better idea than the current system! The downsides again failed to be worse than a fixed caste system and relied upon bad extrapolations.
    - jhbadger 6y ago
      But it would be a great idea if it were real. The problem isn't in the theoretical idea of a meritocracy. It's that the real world isn't nearly as meritocratic as assumed and a lot of people in high places got there by connections, being from wealthy families, and so on and not due to their own merits.
  - me_me_me 6y ago
    Meritocracy - government or the holding of power by people selected according to merit. Every single person in that world IS selected for their role in society based on merit. There is no asterics attached there with +1 conditions. I am not saying that it is a good system as a matter of fact I call it dystopian, only that everyone in it was rather content with their lives.
- ForHackernews 6y ago
  In Brave New World, it's only a meritocracy because they've engineered human embryos to produce the different castes. In the novel, they deliberately induce fetal alcohol syndrome to stunt the intelligence of the lower classes. The modern reformulation would be genetic engineering or at least genetic screening. I'm sure we're not that far away from the wealthy classes testing their embryos and only implanting the ones that have the highest intelligence, least propensity for disease, etc.
  - me_me_me 6y ago
    You could interpret current system where people are made to be good unquestioning workers in schools. Arrive on time, don't question authority, learn to follow what you are being told. After that they are lead to believe living on dept and credit cards is the only way to be happy. And they are stuck in shitty job that they cannot quit since they have interest to play. So they keep their heads down and just keep going.
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > In Brave New World, it's only a meritocracy because they've engineered human embryos to produce the different castes. In the novel, they deliberately induce fetal alcohol syndrome to stunt the intelligence of the lower classes. They also forgoed a lot of automation and engineered society to make use of the stunted lower classes. I recall a scene where they had elevator operators, even though automatic elevators had been invented when the book was written. > The modern reformulation would be genetic engineering or at least genetic screening. I'm sure we're not that far away from the wealthy classes testing their embryos and only implanting the ones that have the highest intelligence, least propensity for disease, etc. That's literally the backstory of the movie Gattica. Though I think the genetic engineering in that movie controlled recombination, so engineered children got all the best genes of their parents. IIRC, people who weren't engineered (like us) lived in slums and were only given menial jobs regardless of talent.

me_me_me 6y ago

BNW world is designed to be pure meritocracy. It really does make you think about their world at the end. And its not really evil oppressive world like 1984. Its just purely mechanical construction that to us look like dystopia. I agree we are and are heading is technological aristocracy where tech is used to keep people in line. Divided over crazy theories, societal issues and squabbling over leftovers. Just give them youtube and they come up with the 'hidden truths' and then they fight with secret kabals and 'morons' who don't see the signs. Meanwhile amazons googles and other industries are literally squeezing all small business out of existence. Do you think an Amazon Town could be created where all you shopping has to be done via amazon but you get 20 or 50% off. How far are we from that reality? What I would disagree with is that the people who push this system forward are far from short-term thinkers, vengeful, insecure. They schemed this system up long time ago and look for every angle to push it ahead. How quickly 9/11 from tragedy was turned into patriot act opportunity?

TT3351 6y ago
Meritocracy set out from birth, no? Are not all people in that book test tube children with specific selected genomes? I fail to see how creating a class of genetic garbage men, relegated to working with trash for their entire lives is "meritocratic," since advocates of the meritocracy concept generally rely on the system's alleged mobility.
- ForHackernews 6y ago
  Reminder that "meritocracy" came to prominence in a satirical essay: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy Unfortunately a bunch of folks read that and thought it was a great idea.
  - throwaway2048 6y ago
    Pretty sure people see the first 5 letters, and then decide since they've earned everything in life, its a great idea.
  - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
    From what I recall from reading it, the meritocracy part actually worked incredibly well, yielding tremendous technological advances. It was the secondary effects of pushing meritocracy to extremes that were the problem.
  - Nasrudith 6y ago
    Well of course - his underlying thesis was weak and failed to show how it would be worse off than the status quo. No wonder it caught on when what was mocked is a better idea than the current system! The downsides again failed to be worse than a fixed caste system and relied upon bad extrapolations.
  - jhbadger 6y ago
    But it would be a great idea if it were real. The problem isn't in the theoretical idea of a meritocracy. It's that the real world isn't nearly as meritocratic as assumed and a lot of people in high places got there by connections, being from wealthy families, and so on and not due to their own merits.
- me_me_me 6y ago
  Meritocracy - government or the holding of power by people selected according to merit. Every single person in that world IS selected for their role in society based on merit. There is no asterics attached there with +1 conditions. I am not saying that it is a good system as a matter of fact I call it dystopian, only that everyone in it was rather content with their lives.
ForHackernews 6y ago
In Brave New World, it's only a meritocracy because they've engineered human embryos to produce the different castes. In the novel, they deliberately induce fetal alcohol syndrome to stunt the intelligence of the lower classes. The modern reformulation would be genetic engineering or at least genetic screening. I'm sure we're not that far away from the wealthy classes testing their embryos and only implanting the ones that have the highest intelligence, least propensity for disease, etc.
- me_me_me 6y ago
  You could interpret current system where people are made to be good unquestioning workers in schools. Arrive on time, don't question authority, learn to follow what you are being told. After that they are lead to believe living on dept and credit cards is the only way to be happy. And they are stuck in shitty job that they cannot quit since they have interest to play. So they keep their heads down and just keep going.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > In Brave New World, it's only a meritocracy because they've engineered human embryos to produce the different castes. In the novel, they deliberately induce fetal alcohol syndrome to stunt the intelligence of the lower classes. They also forgoed a lot of automation and engineered society to make use of the stunted lower classes. I recall a scene where they had elevator operators, even though automatic elevators had been invented when the book was written. > The modern reformulation would be genetic engineering or at least genetic screening. I'm sure we're not that far away from the wealthy classes testing their embryos and only implanting the ones that have the highest intelligence, least propensity for disease, etc. That's literally the backstory of the movie Gattica. Though I think the genetic engineering in that movie controlled recombination, so engineered children got all the best genes of their parents. IIRC, people who weren't engineered (like us) lived in slums and were only given menial jobs regardless of talent.