10 ms·
I know this kind of thing might not be very popular on HN, but I like their anti-meritocracy statement: https://funkwhale.audio/en_US/code-of-conduct https://f
by JacobSuperslav 6y ago
I know this kind of thing might not be very popular on HN, but I like their anti-meritocracy statement:
https://funkwhale.audio/en_US/code-of-conduct https://funkwhale.audio/en_US/code-of-conduct
- BRedSox 6y ago> We have an ethical responsibility to refuse to work on software that will negatively impact the well-being of other people. Such as creating a platform for people to listen to music for free by sharing it with others without paying the artist?
- Asooka 6y agoYou can also say it benefits the artist because it makes it easier to listen to them, which incentivises people to give them money to support them. This is more or less the entire model of Bandcamp.
- glenstein 6y agoRight, and Bandcamp is probably the most pro-artist of the major music platforms, I would say. The project also benefits the artist but creating an infrastructure not controlled by Youtube or Soundcloud.
- TheOtherHobbes 6y agoYou can indeed say that - and people who demand artists work for "exposure" often do. But there's no evidence it's factually correct. And Bandcamp's model is based on selling tracks and albums with free previews, which is entirely different to free listening.
- BRedSox 6y agoSource?
- Kaze404 6y agoDoes BitTorrent fall under that? Or YouTube? Plex? Google Drive?
- BRedSox 6y agoBitTorrent, yes. YouTube, no. They take down videos with copyrighted material.
- Kaze404 6y agoSo by extension browsers allowing file downloads also falls under that? That's just what BitTorrent is after all.
- JacobSuperslav 6y agoAnd knives. They can be used to kill people too.
- monokh 6y agoA free, decentralised and open network with an enforced code of conduct? I cannot reconcile these 2 concepts.
- Munksgaard 6y agoI'm guessing the code of conduct primarily concerns the software development process?
- monokh 6y agoDoesn't seem so: > If a community member engages in .... up to and including expulsion from all Funkwhale spaces
- JacobSuperslav 6y agoIIRC you can't just kick out an instance from a federation by switching a button?
- Kaze404 6y agoThe maintainers have no power over federated instances. The code of conduct is pertaining to the repository and official Funkwhale communities (such as the Matrix chat and discussion boards).
- cousin_it 6y agoYeah, I don't like it. It says making wrong jokes is an offense. On the plus side, it doesn't yet say that failure to report someone else for making wrong jokes is an offense.
- glenstein 6y agoTo include some important information you left out: It says that sexual harassment is bad and that racism is bad, and using jokes to "ironically" do things like that is also bad.
- cousin_it 6y ago(deleted, I was overreacting a bit)
- progval 6y agoThere is a middle ground between "sending people to camps for a wrong joke" and "no one should be held accountable for any of their actions if they claim they are jokes"
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- encom 6y agoA joke is not an action. It can never bring harm to another person.
- glenstein 6y agoHere's an NIH paper going over the harms this brings to other people: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4659767/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4659767/
- claudiawerner 6y agoThere is no yet identified metaphysical difference between speech and other actions, and freedom of expression laws frequently also protect non-speech actions such as burning flags.
- ecmascript 6y agoWhat is it with americans and their meaningless code of conducts?
- BRedSox 6y ago> The registered office is located at 92, rue Consolat, 13001 Marseille, France
- disruptalot 6y ago> Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences. > Gracefully accepting constructive feedback. > Showing empathy and kindness towards other community members. Yada yada, seemingly inclusive and tolerant then goes on to add a catch all list where every possible action can be deemed unacceptable, getting you expelled everywhere and "identification of the participant as a harasser to other members or the general public." Anti meritocracy is a cover for the most intolerant.
- generalk 6y agoWhich of the actions they've listed would you like to be able to do without fear of repercussion? This sounds an awful lot like "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service? So much for the 'tolerant left.'" > Anti meritocracy is a cover for the most intolerant. The Paradox of Tolerance indicates that a society that is infinitely tolerant will eventually be overrun by the least tolerant. Having a written set of guidelines that define the behavior expected seems like...I dunno, a good idea?
- forgotmypw17 6y agoHow ironic that this statement of inclusivity is preceded with this one: >We're sorry but funkwhale.audio doesn't work properly without JavaScript enabled. Please enable it to continue.
- crispyporkbites 6y agoJavaScript is a choice. Inclusivity generally refers to things which are not a choice.
- forgotmypw17 6y agoIs it a choice on iOS 9?
- SippinLean 6y agoYes. On every version.
- forgotmypw17 6y agoIs it a choice if my browser freezes up on a simple site with JS enabled, and there is only a global JS toggle?
- birracerveza 6y agoYou like an ANTI-meritocracy statement? We truly have gone backwards.
- JacobSuperslav 6y agoit's not like what their doing is rocket science And, yes, I believe the world would be a better place if we followed these rules with many projects regardless of the field. Btw, there are some interesting facts about the history of the word, "meritocracy": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy#:~:text=Michael%20Young%20coined%20the%20term,and%20the%20philosophy%20in%20general https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy#....
- herbstein 6y agoThe word 'meritocracy' was coined as a derogatory term about the education system in England in the 50s in a satirical text. It mocked the idea that such a thing could exist because the system obviously wasn't designed for it. If you value "intelligence", but only give rich people access to good education, then you've just created a two-step process that selects for rich people.
- Dirlewanger 6y agoOk, so what? It's not used in that context anymore. It's the same pitfall as the master/slave/blacklist/whitelist/etc. arguments: people have a problem divorcing historical meaning from present-day usage. Meanings change and evolve over time. If we follow this stunted logic, then there's going to be a lot of other English words/phrases that need to be banned as well. The only people associating them with their historical meanings are those wanting to ban the phrases. These etymological fallacies do nothing but pointlessly divide people. It needs to stop.
- rafram 6y agoThe present-day usage of the term still refers to an impossibility.
- 6y ago
- topbanana 6y ago> We have an ethical responsibility to refuse to work on software that will negatively impact the well-being of other people. Except musicians apparently
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- LockAndLol 6y agoAnti-meritocracy just sounds to me like you want to be judged or given privileges by who or what you are, not by what you contribute. It pretty much goes against equality but is being presented as a means to equality. Am I just misinterpreting it or do people supporting it just not thought more deeply about what it is they're supporting?
- Kaze404 6y agoMe too! I used to frequent their Matrix room a year or so ago and it was a very nice place. Very refreshing to find a tech community that made me feel like I could say what I wanted without being interjected by STEM and debate lords. Unfortunately life drove me away from the project, especially now that I work remote and barely leave my home, but every now and then I feel like contributing again just because of how nice everyone is.
- dvdgsng 6y agoWell, they banned folks for really minor reasons from their Matrix channel, e.g. saying "Hi guys, I have a question about ..." can get you banned. So no, this CoC leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth for the entire project.
- stewx 6y ago> The field of software development embraces technical change, and is made better by also accepting social change. Really? All social change is good for the field of software development? Utter nonsense. This product itself is, if anything, a rejection of the social change towards centralized ad-supported streaming services. > We understand that working in our field is a privilege, not a right. I don't have a right to work as a software developer? Last I checked, I lived in a free country where I can do what I want. This is some authoritarian language, implying that people should be ejected from the industry if they don't play according to one person's set of rules.
- rafram 6y agoYou don’t have a “right” to work in any particular field. Harvey Weinstein has no right to work in the movie industry because of his actions. For that matter, coal miners have no right to continue being coal miners - those jobs are outmoded. You have a right to earn a living, but not to any particular job.
- stewx 6y agoIn the absence of a licensing authority for software developers, we have the freedom to work for anyone who will hire us, or for ourselves. No one has the right to work for a particular employer, but also no one can kick a person out of our industry altogether.
- notsureaboutpg 6y agoI tend to support these things but only if they are brief and consistent. The more you add the more loopholes pop up and the more it's likely to piss people off. Some examples where you can see reasonable people starting to take issue: >The only exception to sexual topics is channels/spaces specifically for topics of sexual identity. Eh, why? Why should there be any sexual topics at all? Why do sexual preferences of a certain kind give you a pass to breach an otherwise taboo subject here? >Making light of/making mocking comments about trigger warnings and content warnings. Why? Even people who use these can make light of them sometimes. Imagine a thread starting with "TW: copyright fetishism" that's funny for a service that lets you stream your own purchased music to your friends and family! >Any attempt to present “reverse-ism” as examples of oppression. Examples of reverse-isms are “reverse racism”, “reverse sexism”, “heterophobia”, and “cisphobia”. Again, these things can and do happen. Different groups and communities have different norms. And it's human nature to punish/mock deviance from the norm. That can happen to anyone. I totally get that there is a longer andore fleshed out history of racism in, say, the US against black people than against anyone else. But still, this seems unnecessary and guaranteed to cause problems... >Any of the above even when presented as “ironic” or “joking”. They will ignore this of course when anyone jokes about how conservatives or whoever is a racist / sexist / etc. I actually like the anti-meritocracy statement. If people take the time to read it, they'll find it largely agreeable. I strongly dislike the code of conduct though. That's guaranteed to stir up conflicts.
- rapnie 6y agoThey were taken from https://postmeritocracy.org/ https://postmeritocracy.org/ by Coraline Ada Ehmke.