4 ms·

Depends on the dating app, but my only real problem is that I find doing nothing at home more entertaining than first dates, and second dates bring fear of comm

Depends on the dating app, but my only real problem is that I find doing nothing at home more entertaining than first dates, and second dates bring fear of commitment. Actually getting dates? That's easy enough. Being white, attractive enough, 6' tall, between 150 and 180lbs, no kids, and make a tech salary seems to tick off a lot of boxes for girls.

toyg 6y ago
That’s like saying “buying anything I want is easy enough, being rich seems to help”.
- worker767424 6y ago
  I'm engineer-awkward, though.
barnacled 6y ago
The height is by far the most important factor. Surprised me but as a 5'5" guy, shedding excess weight, new wardrobe, good job, approached women IRL and online, none of it mattered compared to height. Goes down exponentially proportionate to how many SDs from the mean you are... I have had relationships and am engaged to a beautiful woman now so I found a way to work around it but it is near impossible. My short male friends are either single or have made considerable compromises. It's a factor that is weirdly denied in society too. Nobody wants to hear that an immutable characteristic plays such a role on the male side...
- toyg 6y ago
  I think it's due to society still fundamentally adjusting to female parity of power and the reduced value of marriage. Until recently, single women suffered huge economic insecurity; they had a massive incentive to compromise on their attractiveness standards. This said, you can still somewhat compensate for height with status and other looks. Tom Cruise is 172cm but I don't think he ever struggled for dates.
  - barnacled 6y ago
    Perhaps but women biologically have a very strong preference for height as it was during most of humanity's evolution a great analogue for ability to protect and provide. We men of course have our own biological preferences perhaps equally irrelevant in the modern era, so this isn't a blame thing just an oft denied fact. Oh and as to Tom Cruise - it is a hilarious kind of example I have heard so many times. The fact that people have to reference those who are monumentally successful in the top .000001% kind of proves the point.
    - toyg 6y ago
      It’s just because everybody knows him. You could pick any random successful guy who is not tall and you’d probably find the same. Attractiveness is made of many factors and height is just one of them.
      - barnacled 6y ago
        I get bored with this kind of argument because it always ignores magnitude and nuance. Yes there other factors but height tends to be a prerequisite before they apply. Odds goes exponentially down based on how far from the mean you are. 5'9" vs. 5'5" is a world of difference. 'Success' is also not Boolean. I know very successful short guys who have had zero success with women. Talking in blasé terms 'oh it is just one of many factors' is like saying possessing functioning legs is just one of many factors a footballer requires. Or having enough petrol is one of many factors in a car functioning properly. It's true but kind of missing the point. The really interesting point is why people are so in denial about this fact that is so blatantly obvious. I suspect it is a mix of those without this issue wanting to think their success was all attributable to their own skills, people not liking the idea that something uncontrollable could screw you so bad, women feeling it is an attack (it isn't at all), those who are shorter but not significantly below the mean having success (though reduced) and thinking it must apply to those shorter than them, etc. Another interesting thing I have noticed is that short men is one of the few remaining immutable characteristics society allows people to mock openly. "What is she doing with that little squirt" is something I heard from a friend recently without a hint of self-awareness.
- BMSmnqXAE4yfe1 6y ago
  It's much exaggerated in online dating. I'm short too, but IRL the height is less of a problem, women taller than me routinely approach me in clubs. In online dating, they just filter by height using "AND" operator, and that's it.
  - barnacled 6y ago
    It is a matter of magnitude though. How short are you? I am 2SD below the mean and trust me that rules you out very much IRL too. But I agree that women are obviously filtering on that. As an anecdote - one site I was on took a while to publish my height and I started having conversations with women. As soon as it showed one dropped contact and the other said she felt 'no chemistry' after we had basically said hello to each other :)
- honkdaddy 6y ago
  I had a miraculous growth spurt around 18 and went from 5'6 to about 5'10, putting me happily within the average range. What barnacled is saying is absolutely true, and unless you've spent time as a single man of below average height, you really just won't understand. The difference in attention and respect that a few inches make is pretty astounding. I'd imagine it's pretty similar to the stories I hear of people shedding hundreds of pounds and being treated as a completely different person. Once again, unless you've been on both sides of the equation, it's unlikely you'll be able to grasp how much physical traits like height and weight affect how people treat you.
  - barnacled 6y ago
    I got majorly downvoted for saying it, it's one of those things people don't like to accept, it's amazing the excuses I've heard and how angry people have got with me for saying it. As you say, unless you've experienced it for yourself it's hard (but not impossible) to get quite how extreme it is. I've heard plenty enough from women talking directly about it, from basically all fiction ('tall, dark, handsome' in that order, no romance novel has a short guy, etc.), the fact that height rockets up when nutrition improves - sexual selection likely to be a big factor on that too. It's nuanced and it's all relative to the average height of the dating population you're in but a few inches can be the difference between some attention and absolutely none.
    - barnacled 6y ago
      And more downvoting :) people really do not like to be told the truth on this issue. So strange to me.

toyg 6y ago

That’s like saying “buying anything I want is easy enough, being rich seems to help”.

worker767424 6y ago
I'm engineer-awkward, though.

barnacled 6y ago

The height is by far the most important factor. Surprised me but as a 5'5" guy, shedding excess weight, new wardrobe, good job, approached women IRL and online, none of it mattered compared to height. Goes down exponentially proportionate to how many SDs from the mean you are... I have had relationships and am engaged to a beautiful woman now so I found a way to work around it but it is near impossible. My short male friends are either single or have made considerable compromises. It's a factor that is weirdly denied in society too. Nobody wants to hear that an immutable characteristic plays such a role on the male side...

toyg 6y ago
I think it's due to society still fundamentally adjusting to female parity of power and the reduced value of marriage. Until recently, single women suffered huge economic insecurity; they had a massive incentive to compromise on their attractiveness standards. This said, you can still somewhat compensate for height with status and other looks. Tom Cruise is 172cm but I don't think he ever struggled for dates.
- barnacled 6y ago
  Perhaps but women biologically have a very strong preference for height as it was during most of humanity's evolution a great analogue for ability to protect and provide. We men of course have our own biological preferences perhaps equally irrelevant in the modern era, so this isn't a blame thing just an oft denied fact. Oh and as to Tom Cruise - it is a hilarious kind of example I have heard so many times. The fact that people have to reference those who are monumentally successful in the top .000001% kind of proves the point.
  - toyg 6y ago
    It’s just because everybody knows him. You could pick any random successful guy who is not tall and you’d probably find the same. Attractiveness is made of many factors and height is just one of them.
    - barnacled 6y ago
      I get bored with this kind of argument because it always ignores magnitude and nuance. Yes there other factors but height tends to be a prerequisite before they apply. Odds goes exponentially down based on how far from the mean you are. 5'9" vs. 5'5" is a world of difference. 'Success' is also not Boolean. I know very successful short guys who have had zero success with women. Talking in blasé terms 'oh it is just one of many factors' is like saying possessing functioning legs is just one of many factors a footballer requires. Or having enough petrol is one of many factors in a car functioning properly. It's true but kind of missing the point. The really interesting point is why people are so in denial about this fact that is so blatantly obvious. I suspect it is a mix of those without this issue wanting to think their success was all attributable to their own skills, people not liking the idea that something uncontrollable could screw you so bad, women feeling it is an attack (it isn't at all), those who are shorter but not significantly below the mean having success (though reduced) and thinking it must apply to those shorter than them, etc. Another interesting thing I have noticed is that short men is one of the few remaining immutable characteristics society allows people to mock openly. "What is she doing with that little squirt" is something I heard from a friend recently without a hint of self-awareness.
BMSmnqXAE4yfe1 6y ago
It's much exaggerated in online dating. I'm short too, but IRL the height is less of a problem, women taller than me routinely approach me in clubs. In online dating, they just filter by height using "AND" operator, and that's it.
- barnacled 6y ago
  It is a matter of magnitude though. How short are you? I am 2SD below the mean and trust me that rules you out very much IRL too. But I agree that women are obviously filtering on that. As an anecdote - one site I was on took a while to publish my height and I started having conversations with women. As soon as it showed one dropped contact and the other said she felt 'no chemistry' after we had basically said hello to each other :)
honkdaddy 6y ago
I had a miraculous growth spurt around 18 and went from 5'6 to about 5'10, putting me happily within the average range. What barnacled is saying is absolutely true, and unless you've spent time as a single man of below average height, you really just won't understand. The difference in attention and respect that a few inches make is pretty astounding. I'd imagine it's pretty similar to the stories I hear of people shedding hundreds of pounds and being treated as a completely different person. Once again, unless you've been on both sides of the equation, it's unlikely you'll be able to grasp how much physical traits like height and weight affect how people treat you.
- barnacled 6y ago
  I got majorly downvoted for saying it, it's one of those things people don't like to accept, it's amazing the excuses I've heard and how angry people have got with me for saying it. As you say, unless you've experienced it for yourself it's hard (but not impossible) to get quite how extreme it is. I've heard plenty enough from women talking directly about it, from basically all fiction ('tall, dark, handsome' in that order, no romance novel has a short guy, etc.), the fact that height rockets up when nutrition improves - sexual selection likely to be a big factor on that too. It's nuanced and it's all relative to the average height of the dating population you're in but a few inches can be the difference between some attention and absolutely none.
  - barnacled 6y ago
    And more downvoting :) people really do not like to be told the truth on this issue. So strange to me.