6 ms·

Surely a version that can beat a 8 core Xeon is made for 'actual professionals'?

kalleboo 6y ago
It still has a lot of limitations that matter to many pros - max 16 GB of RAM, max 2 displays (only 1 external for laptops), only enough PCIe lanes to support 2 thunderbolt ports. eGPUs aren't supported either, but hopefully that is a software thing that will be fixed. It will be very interesting to see what the performance will be of the more "pro" chip that overcomes those limitations that they'd put in the 16" and iMacs
- rickbutton 6y ago
  why would it be only 1 external display? Can you not plug into a thunderbolt dock and use multiple external displays? I do exactly that with my 2012 MacBook Pro.
  - eli 6y ago
    It's a limitation of the M1 chip apparently https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/11/11/how-apple-silicon-on-a-m1-mac-changes-monitor-support-and-what-you-can-connect https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/11/11/how-apple-silicon...
    - dawnerd 6y ago
      That’s merely speculation as to why.
  - rorykoehler 6y ago
    You can use sidecar with an ipad for a second external display.
    - Fnoord 6y ago
      With some iPads. Not all. I was thinking of using an older iPad for this purpose, but alas. Won't work. Too old.
  - kalleboo 6y ago
    The embedded GPU doesn't support it
- reaperducer 6y ago
  max 2 displays (only 1 external for laptops) I wonder if that includes AirPlay screens, or just wired.
  - Joeri 6y ago
    This may work. On a 2014 macbook air, which officially only supports only one external display, I've been able to use two external screens at the same time by sharing one through airplay. However, you're always limited in resolution and latency that way.
  - kalleboo 6y ago
    I would imagine just wired - it's probably a lack of DisplayPort/HDMI encoders rather than rendering resources.
- jrobn 6y ago
  It’s a first generation chip in a thin-and-light laptop. I suspect all those problems will be fixed as they scale it up. Not to mention their unique position of leverage dedicated acceleration silicon in their software now.
- simcop2387 6y ago
  eGPU support will depend on if they have a way to work around the need for a PCIe I/O BAR. Many GPUs require that to initialize and as far as I know no ARM cpus support it since it's a legacy-ish x86 thing. It'll be the same problem that prevents gpu use on raspberry pi 4s still. I bet you can make a controller that'll provide a mapping for that to allow it but that'll mean needing a new enclosure (probably not a huge deal) and new silicon and drivers.
  - dwaite 6y ago
    I don't quite get how Apple could claim to be Thunderbolt-compatible with this sort of limitation in hardware, though.
    - djxfade 6y ago
      It's not a limitation in hardware. It's a legacy feature of the x86 that isn't supported on ARM. This could be solved by the GPU engineers by removing the legacy compatibility. "Nobody" boots a modern PC from BIOS anymore
  - SXX 6y ago
    AMD GPUs work just fine with POWER8 hardware so this is certainly solved.
  - marcan_42 6y ago
    AMD GPUs do not require I/O BARs, and highly doubt Nvidia ones do either. The VBIOS will probably assume it can use it, but most modern cards can be initialized without actually running the VBIOS (because people use them on headless servers, for virtualization, and things like that). The I/O BAR is only required for legacy VGA compatibility, you can ignore it.
sliken 6y ago
Dunno, seems like most professionals would want to use docker, virtual machines, or enough video/data to want more than 16GB ram. Or maybe even plug in more than a charging cable and one more device. Or run more than one external monitor. Doesn't seem very "pro" to me. The MBP16" intel has 4 x USB-c ports, can drive two monitors, and can have >= 32GB ram.
- sosborn 6y ago
  > most professionals would want to use docker, virtual machines, or enough video/data to want more than 16GB ram. Again, what definition of "pro" are you using, and how is that relevant to professionals with other occupations?
- wlesieutre 6y ago
  Most professionals aren't software developers and don't need to run virtual machines. But regardless of professional requirements, "Pro" in Apple's product line just means "the more expensive slightly better version." Nobody's arguing that AirPods Pro are the wireless earbuds of choice for people who make money by listening to wireless earbuds.
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    Hm, a good VM is one you don't even notice. Say you run Qubes. Not necessarily for development (I would argue Nix is the best OS for DevOps). If all goes well, such an OS becomes very adequate for an average user. For example, a hardware VM could allow you to run a browser more secure.
- grecy 6y ago
  > most professionals would want to use docker, virtual machines, or enough video/data to want more than 16GB ram I'm a Sofwware Engineer / pro photographer / videographer. I sling code from time to time, edit thousands of RAW files from my cameras and edit together 1080p footage day in and day out. I did that for years on a 2013 MBA with 8GB of RAM. Now I have a 2015 MBP with 16GB of RAM. It's perfectly adequate.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

It still has a lot of limitations that matter to many pros - max 16 GB of RAM, max 2 displays (only 1 external for laptops), only enough PCIe lanes to support 2 thunderbolt ports. eGPUs aren't supported either, but hopefully that is a software thing that will be fixed. It will be very interesting to see what the performance will be of the more "pro" chip that overcomes those limitations that they'd put in the 16" and iMacs

rickbutton 6y ago
why would it be only 1 external display? Can you not plug into a thunderbolt dock and use multiple external displays? I do exactly that with my 2012 MacBook Pro.
- eli 6y ago
  It's a limitation of the M1 chip apparently https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/11/11/how-apple-silicon-on-a-m1-mac-changes-monitor-support-and-what-you-can-connect https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/11/11/how-apple-silicon...
  - dawnerd 6y ago
    That’s merely speculation as to why.
- rorykoehler 6y ago
  You can use sidecar with an ipad for a second external display.
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    With some iPads. Not all. I was thinking of using an older iPad for this purpose, but alas. Won't work. Too old.
- kalleboo 6y ago
  The embedded GPU doesn't support it
reaperducer 6y ago
max 2 displays (only 1 external for laptops) I wonder if that includes AirPlay screens, or just wired.
- Joeri 6y ago
  This may work. On a 2014 macbook air, which officially only supports only one external display, I've been able to use two external screens at the same time by sharing one through airplay. However, you're always limited in resolution and latency that way.
- kalleboo 6y ago
  I would imagine just wired - it's probably a lack of DisplayPort/HDMI encoders rather than rendering resources.
jrobn 6y ago
It’s a first generation chip in a thin-and-light laptop. I suspect all those problems will be fixed as they scale it up. Not to mention their unique position of leverage dedicated acceleration silicon in their software now.
simcop2387 6y ago
eGPU support will depend on if they have a way to work around the need for a PCIe I/O BAR. Many GPUs require that to initialize and as far as I know no ARM cpus support it since it's a legacy-ish x86 thing. It'll be the same problem that prevents gpu use on raspberry pi 4s still. I bet you can make a controller that'll provide a mapping for that to allow it but that'll mean needing a new enclosure (probably not a huge deal) and new silicon and drivers.
- dwaite 6y ago
  I don't quite get how Apple could claim to be Thunderbolt-compatible with this sort of limitation in hardware, though.
  - djxfade 6y ago
    It's not a limitation in hardware. It's a legacy feature of the x86 that isn't supported on ARM. This could be solved by the GPU engineers by removing the legacy compatibility. "Nobody" boots a modern PC from BIOS anymore
- SXX 6y ago
  AMD GPUs work just fine with POWER8 hardware so this is certainly solved.
- marcan_42 6y ago
  AMD GPUs do not require I/O BARs, and highly doubt Nvidia ones do either. The VBIOS will probably assume it can use it, but most modern cards can be initialized without actually running the VBIOS (because people use them on headless servers, for virtualization, and things like that). The I/O BAR is only required for legacy VGA compatibility, you can ignore it.

sliken 6y ago

Dunno, seems like most professionals would want to use docker, virtual machines, or enough video/data to want more than 16GB ram. Or maybe even plug in more than a charging cable and one more device. Or run more than one external monitor. Doesn't seem very "pro" to me. The MBP16" intel has 4 x USB-c ports, can drive two monitors, and can have >= 32GB ram.

sosborn 6y ago
> most professionals would want to use docker, virtual machines, or enough video/data to want more than 16GB ram. Again, what definition of "pro" are you using, and how is that relevant to professionals with other occupations?
wlesieutre 6y ago
Most professionals aren't software developers and don't need to run virtual machines. But regardless of professional requirements, "Pro" in Apple's product line just means "the more expensive slightly better version." Nobody's arguing that AirPods Pro are the wireless earbuds of choice for people who make money by listening to wireless earbuds.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  Hm, a good VM is one you don't even notice. Say you run Qubes. Not necessarily for development (I would argue Nix is the best OS for DevOps). If all goes well, such an OS becomes very adequate for an average user. For example, a hardware VM could allow you to run a browser more secure.
grecy 6y ago
> most professionals would want to use docker, virtual machines, or enough video/data to want more than 16GB ram I'm a Sofwware Engineer / pro photographer / videographer. I sling code from time to time, edit thousands of RAW files from my cameras and edit together 1080p footage day in and day out. I did that for years on a 2013 MBA with 8GB of RAM. Now I have a 2015 MBP with 16GB of RAM. It's perfectly adequate.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]