3 ms·

Damnit I have to decide the same thing. I’m really happy with my 16” mbp for once and I’m not sure if I want to get a smaller screen and give up windows support

by S_A_P 6y ago

Damnit I have to decide the same thing. I’m really happy with my 16” mbp for once and I’m not sure if I want to get a smaller screen and give up windows support (for now) I feel like Ms could be convinced to make a version for Apple silicone if it keeps its performance advantage.

minxomat 6y ago
Good news is Parallels announced a closer colab with Apple to bring x86 virt to M1, too. They demo'd Parallels running a linux VM at WWDC, but the upcoming release will also support seamless Windows virt again.
- LeoPanthera 6y ago
  That demo shows an ARM VM with Linux for ARM running inside it. There have been no announcements or demos of Intel emulation, besides Rosetta 2.
  - minxomat 6y ago
    Parallels announced a full version of Parallels Desktop (which is the Win-on-macOS product) at the same time as the event on Nov 10: https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-silicon-mac/ https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-sili...
    - LeoPanthera 6y ago
      That PR doesn't actually say anything about running Windows. You can't just port the app. A VM on an ARM system is still ARM inside, and given that the PR specifically mentions "support of x64 applications in Windows on ARM", this is clearly for ARM VMs. You'd need actual Intel emulation in order to run the normal version of Windows.
      - terramex 6y ago
        > You'd need actual Intel emulation in order to run the normal version of Windows. Microsoft is working on enabling x64 emulation on ARM, it should roll out in preview this month[1]. I can see Windows 10 ARM-edition working inside Parallels with its own x64 emulation inside. The issue right now is that MS does not sell Win 10 ARM, it is available for OEMs only. x86 emulation on Windows 10 ARM was already done few years ago, when MS shipped their Surface ARM notebook. [1] https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2020/09/30/now-more-essential-than-ever-the-role-of-the-windows-pc-has-changed/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2020/09/30/now-m...
        cbsks 6y ago
        X64 apps running in a emulator, running on ARM64 Windows, running virtualized in ARM64 MacOS. What is the world coming to??
        tonyedgecombe 6y ago
        At least it doesn't involve Electron.
        soneil 6y ago
        That actually seems more logical than the alternatives. One of the big hopes for Rosetta2 is the possibility of intercepting library calls and passing them to the native library where possible. So a well-behaved app using OS libraries for everything it can, and really only driving the business logic itself, would be running mostly-native with the business logic emulated/translated. (This is hopes/dreams/speculation with no insider knowledge.) If Windows could do the same, then letting windows-arm do the translation of windows-x86/64 binaries would allow it to leverage windows-arm libraries - so an app could be running in mostly-virt with some-emu. If we let parallels/qemu/etc do the emu, it can only ever be 100% emu.
        my123 6y ago
        The VHDX for Windows 10 on Arm inside of virtual machines can be downloaded at: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windowsinsiderpreviewARM64 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windowsins... as part of the Insider program.
    - sibartlett 6y ago
      No mention there of it supporting x86 on M1.
      - minxomat 6y ago
        Indeed. Might be misleading marketing. Docker meanwhile mentioned they will launch with ARM containers only, but are expecting QEMU to be able to run x86 (probably badly).

by S_A_P 6y ago

minxomat 6y ago

Good news is Parallels announced a closer colab with Apple to bring x86 virt to M1, too. They demo'd Parallels running a linux VM at WWDC, but the upcoming release will also support seamless Windows virt again.

LeoPanthera 6y ago
That demo shows an ARM VM with Linux for ARM running inside it. There have been no announcements or demos of Intel emulation, besides Rosetta 2.
- minxomat 6y ago
  Parallels announced a full version of Parallels Desktop (which is the Win-on-macOS product) at the same time as the event on Nov 10: https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-silicon-mac/ https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-sili...
  - LeoPanthera 6y ago
    That PR doesn't actually say anything about running Windows. You can't just port the app. A VM on an ARM system is still ARM inside, and given that the PR specifically mentions "support of x64 applications in Windows on ARM", this is clearly for ARM VMs. You'd need actual Intel emulation in order to run the normal version of Windows.
    - terramex 6y ago
      > You'd need actual Intel emulation in order to run the normal version of Windows. Microsoft is working on enabling x64 emulation on ARM, it should roll out in preview this month[1]. I can see Windows 10 ARM-edition working inside Parallels with its own x64 emulation inside. The issue right now is that MS does not sell Win 10 ARM, it is available for OEMs only. x86 emulation on Windows 10 ARM was already done few years ago, when MS shipped their Surface ARM notebook. [1] https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2020/09/30/now-more-essential-than-ever-the-role-of-the-windows-pc-has-changed/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2020/09/30/now-m...
      - cbsks 6y ago
        X64 apps running in a emulator, running on ARM64 Windows, running virtualized in ARM64 MacOS. What is the world coming to??
        tonyedgecombe 6y ago
        At least it doesn't involve Electron.
        soneil 6y ago
        That actually seems more logical than the alternatives. One of the big hopes for Rosetta2 is the possibility of intercepting library calls and passing them to the native library where possible. So a well-behaved app using OS libraries for everything it can, and really only driving the business logic itself, would be running mostly-native with the business logic emulated/translated. (This is hopes/dreams/speculation with no insider knowledge.) If Windows could do the same, then letting windows-arm do the translation of windows-x86/64 binaries would allow it to leverage windows-arm libraries - so an app could be running in mostly-virt with some-emu. If we let parallels/qemu/etc do the emu, it can only ever be 100% emu.
      - my123 6y ago
        The VHDX for Windows 10 on Arm inside of virtual machines can be downloaded at: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windowsinsiderpreviewARM64 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windowsins... as part of the Insider program.
  - sibartlett 6y ago
    No mention there of it supporting x86 on M1.
    - minxomat 6y ago
      Indeed. Might be misleading marketing. Docker meanwhile mentioned they will launch with ARM containers only, but are expecting QEMU to be able to run x86 (probably badly).