4 ms·

Then how do these people receive aid from social programs, without being able to provide proof of identity? How do they operate motor vehicles to get to or fro

Then how do these people receive aid from social programs, without being able to provide proof of identity? How do they operate motor vehicles to get to or from (or at) jobs, especially in the majority of counties in the United States without substantial public transit systems? How do these people even purchase alcohol without proof of identity? I still get carded and I've been a legal drinker for well over 20 years.

stouset 6y ago
> Then how do these people receive aid from social programs, without being able to provide proof of identity? Many of them don't. I would however like to call out your extremely offensive implicit assertion that anyone who doesn't have ID is likely to be a social aid recipient. > How do they operate motor vehicles to get to or from (or at) jobs, especially in the majority of counties in the United States without substantial public transit systems? Many of them don't. It's extremely common to get rides from friends, family, and/or coworkers. > How do these people even purchase alcohol without proof of identity? I still get carded and I've been a legal drinker for well over 20 years. Many of them don't. And this is locale-dependent. I was carded 100% of the time during a trip to Colorado last year, but I haven't been carded except a handful of times since living in California. I'm 35.
- treeman79 6y ago
  My much older sister was on welfare in California. It was routine to “borrow” kids from friend to get more benefits. At some point rules changed, and she stared working again.
  - stouset 6y ago
    While I'm enjoying the clever "fraud" twist in the otherwise well-worn trope about welfare queens in left-leaning states, I'm genuinely confused as to where it fits in with a discussion about voter ID requirements.
    - treeman79 6y ago
      Welfare fraud was common and easy. My sister was 3rd generation on welfare. It was a bit before my time. But I’m guessing that welfare supporters dismissed concerns at that time as well. Of course I could be wrong, maybe all politicians knew about the fraud and honestly reported on how easy it was.
      - jeffbee 6y ago
        I do not choose to doubt your personal story (although, it sounds like fiction) but statistics on welfare fraud show that it is a small fraction of welfare program spending, and that the majority of such fraud is perpetrated by third parties, not beneficiaries. As an example Social Security disburses over a trillion dollars every year but estimates fraud costs them $355 million, much less than one tenth of one percent, basically zero. By contrast retail "shrinkage", or people stealing the inventory, amounts to 1.5% of US retail sales, and compliance with the federal income tax stands at merely 85%. So social spending looks pretty solid by comparison.

stouset 6y ago

> Then how do these people receive aid from social programs, without being able to provide proof of identity? Many of them don't. I would however like to call out your extremely offensive implicit assertion that anyone who doesn't have ID is likely to be a social aid recipient. > How do they operate motor vehicles to get to or from (or at) jobs, especially in the majority of counties in the United States without substantial public transit systems? Many of them don't. It's extremely common to get rides from friends, family, and/or coworkers. > How do these people even purchase alcohol without proof of identity? I still get carded and I've been a legal drinker for well over 20 years. Many of them don't. And this is locale-dependent. I was carded 100% of the time during a trip to Colorado last year, but I haven't been carded except a handful of times since living in California. I'm 35.

treeman79 6y ago
My much older sister was on welfare in California. It was routine to “borrow” kids from friend to get more benefits. At some point rules changed, and she stared working again.
- stouset 6y ago
  While I'm enjoying the clever "fraud" twist in the otherwise well-worn trope about welfare queens in left-leaning states, I'm genuinely confused as to where it fits in with a discussion about voter ID requirements.
  - treeman79 6y ago
    Welfare fraud was common and easy. My sister was 3rd generation on welfare. It was a bit before my time. But I’m guessing that welfare supporters dismissed concerns at that time as well. Of course I could be wrong, maybe all politicians knew about the fraud and honestly reported on how easy it was.
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      I do not choose to doubt your personal story (although, it sounds like fiction) but statistics on welfare fraud show that it is a small fraction of welfare program spending, and that the majority of such fraud is perpetrated by third parties, not beneficiaries. As an example Social Security disburses over a trillion dollars every year but estimates fraud costs them $355 million, much less than one tenth of one percent, basically zero. By contrast retail "shrinkage", or people stealing the inventory, amounts to 1.5% of US retail sales, and compliance with the federal income tax stands at merely 85%. So social spending looks pretty solid by comparison.