8 ms·

AndroWish – run desktop Tcl/Tk programs almost unaltered on the Android Platform

68 points by jakobdabo 6y ago

aidenn0 6y ago
Does anyone know how and/or who is behind Tk? It is in my opinion the best open-source cross-platform gui toolkit, but it seems like both of these are true: 1. Hardly anybody uses it 2. It keeps getting steady updates and improvements So what am I missing?
- rsecora 6y ago
  There is a gifted group of developers at the core. https://www.tcl.tk/community/coreteam/ https://www.tcl.tk/community/coreteam/ Nevertheless, new development and functionalities are tracked as proposals in the TIP page, an example of how to maintain an open source project. https://core.tcl-lang.org/tips/doc/trunk/index.md https://core.tcl-lang.org/tips/doc/trunk/index.md
- mkovach 6y ago
  In addition to the Core Team, D. Richard Hipp ( sqlite3, fossil-scm ) is a pretty avid user, contributes to tcl and writes apps that use TCL (wapp is one, sqlite3 has easy hooks to TCL). TCL isn't widely popular but has a strong core team and just enough interest to drive development.
  - aidenn0 6y ago
    It may be just my bubble, but I see TCL still being used, but I don't remember the last time I saw someone use a Tk application that wasn't written by me (and it's been a while since I wrote any Tk for that matter).
    - mkovach 6y ago
      Well, I still use tkcon and tkdesk quite a bit, so I wouldn't comment on the popularity. I am a bit biased and generally don't use fancy graphical stuff. But I do follow the Tcl/Tk lists and newsgroups and there are quite a few people doing Tk stuff based on the discussion there. * Okay, I just mentioned fancy graphical stuff and newsgroups. I feel old. I need a nap.
      - aidenn0 6y ago
        Well, searching for a tkdesk screenshot, I found https://www.linuxjournal.com/files/linuxjournal.com/linuxjournal/articles/024/2456/2456f1.jpg https://www.linuxjournal.com/files/linuxjournal.com/linuxjou... which really takes me back...
        mkovach 6y ago
        I typically like to use cwm and instead of modifying it to bring up dmenu or the like, I use TkDesk.
        aidenn0 6y ago
        Is the 2.0 release on sourceforge the definitive version of TkDesk still?
    - znpy 6y ago
      I use girl all the time, it has all the features I need (and something more).
Kosirich 6y ago
What is recommended IDE for someone with fairly basic knowledge of TCL? I'm creating/editing some machine nc-code post-processors that use TCL. So far I have used VS-Code with tcl extension but I wonder if there are 'preferred' IDEs.
- terminalcommand 6y ago
  As far as I know activestate has a TCL IDE. But I think like lisp, an IDE is a foreign concept in coding TCL. TCL is a different beast, it cannot be represented with an EBNF, you can redefine anything including language keywords etc. TCL is thus closer to a human language (much more expressive) so making an IDE to accomodate features of TCL could be harder than conventional languages.
  - aidenn0 6y ago
    "like lisp"? The high quality free IDE (SLIME) is a big part of why I still use common lisp.
    - terminalcommand 6y ago
      I wouldn’t call slime an IDE, lisp compiler isn’t even included in it. Slime is a wonderful editor mode. You still need to configure things to get it working. With an IDE, I think of something like Xcode or VS.
      - aidenn0 6y ago
        I think anything that Integrates the tools used for your Development Environment is an IDE. SLIME integrates a compiler, debugger, code browser, documentation, and editor. If it's not an IDE than nothing is (and there are no Java IDEs either then because they almost always use an external compiler and runtime).
        terminalcommand 6y ago
        The line between IDEs and editors get blurry every day :). You’re right java IDEs sometimes don’t include java sdk in the base package. I’ve recently been fiddling with ios development, when thinking of an IDE, I think of xcode, visual studio etc. Lots of defaults and magic. Slime might very well be considered an IDE, an IDE for power users :) who likely have learned at least some emacs lisp to get it working.
qwerty456127 6y ago
What about Python/Tkinter?
- app4soft 6y ago
  Not sure about Tkinter for Android[0], but for Python for Android take a look on Kivy/Py4A.[1,2] As for Py/Qt for Android there is QPython.[3] But, sadly, there are NO good Android alternative to "PyS60" (Python for Symbian S60).[4] [0] https://learning-python.com/using-tkinter-programs-on-android.html https://learning-python.com/using-tkinter-programs-on-androi... [1] https://github.com/kivy/kivy https://github.com/kivy/kivy [2] https://github.com/kivymd/KivyMD https://github.com/kivymd/KivyMD [3] https://github.com/qpython-android/qpython3 https://github.com/qpython-android/qpython3 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PyS60 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PyS60
nmstoker 6y ago
Is there some reason they seem to studiously avoid screenshots of the apps? I looked over the site and couldn't see anything, even in the PDFs of their presentations except for one which had a tiny image that looked awful and had rather 1980s style colouring. I know the technical detail will be more interesting to those who buy in, but to get people to buy into just how wonderful the idea is you need a bit more than a text description of it!
- duskwuff 6y ago
  There are a couple of screenshots at: https://www.androwish.org/index.html/wiki?name=Example+Scripts https://www.androwish.org/index.html/wiki?name=Example+Scrip... What I see there does not look promising. The results all look like desktop applications running on a tablet -- not mobile applications. Many of the controls (like scrollbars, grid views, and drop-down menus) are likely to be unusable in a touch interface because they are far too small to interact with reliably.
  - fayten 6y ago
    Decent Espresso uses AndroWish for their software found here(scroll down for screenshots): https://decentespresso.com/downloads https://decentespresso.com/downloads A talk on it can also be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey30Cg1fM0Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey30Cg1fM0Q Original HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20571113 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20571113 Those screenshots on Androwish's site appear to all be using the base theme. Tk is completely themeable and is pretty easy to extend. There is a repo that is making a large collection of open source themes available for tk and tkinter found here: https://github.com/TkinterEP/ttkthemes https://github.com/TkinterEP/ttkthemes. Another nice theme is a port of KDEs breeze theme: https://github.com/MaxPerl/ttk-Breeze https://github.com/MaxPerl/ttk-Breeze This isn't AndroWish related, but RattleCAD is a nice looking desktop Tcl/Tk application: http://www.rattlecad.com/ http://www.rattlecad.com/

68 points by jakobdabo 6y ago

Does anyone know how and/or who is behind Tk? It is in my opinion the best open-source cross-platform gui toolkit, but it seems like both of these are true: 1. Hardly anybody uses it 2. It keeps getting steady updates and improvements So what am I missing?

rsecora 6y ago
There is a gifted group of developers at the core. https://www.tcl.tk/community/coreteam/ https://www.tcl.tk/community/coreteam/ Nevertheless, new development and functionalities are tracked as proposals in the TIP page, an example of how to maintain an open source project. https://core.tcl-lang.org/tips/doc/trunk/index.md https://core.tcl-lang.org/tips/doc/trunk/index.md
mkovach 6y ago
In addition to the Core Team, D. Richard Hipp ( sqlite3, fossil-scm ) is a pretty avid user, contributes to tcl and writes apps that use TCL (wapp is one, sqlite3 has easy hooks to TCL). TCL isn't widely popular but has a strong core team and just enough interest to drive development.
- aidenn0 6y ago
  It may be just my bubble, but I see TCL still being used, but I don't remember the last time I saw someone use a Tk application that wasn't written by me (and it's been a while since I wrote any Tk for that matter).
  - mkovach 6y ago
    Well, I still use tkcon and tkdesk quite a bit, so I wouldn't comment on the popularity. I am a bit biased and generally don't use fancy graphical stuff. But I do follow the Tcl/Tk lists and newsgroups and there are quite a few people doing Tk stuff based on the discussion there. * Okay, I just mentioned fancy graphical stuff and newsgroups. I feel old. I need a nap.
    - aidenn0 6y ago
      Well, searching for a tkdesk screenshot, I found https://www.linuxjournal.com/files/linuxjournal.com/linuxjournal/articles/024/2456/2456f1.jpg https://www.linuxjournal.com/files/linuxjournal.com/linuxjou... which really takes me back...
      - mkovach 6y ago
        I typically like to use cwm and instead of modifying it to bring up dmenu or the like, I use TkDesk.
        aidenn0 6y ago
        Is the 2.0 release on sourceforge the definitive version of TkDesk still?
  - znpy 6y ago
    I use girl all the time, it has all the features I need (and something more).

Kosirich 6y ago

What is recommended IDE for someone with fairly basic knowledge of TCL? I'm creating/editing some machine nc-code post-processors that use TCL. So far I have used VS-Code with tcl extension but I wonder if there are 'preferred' IDEs.

terminalcommand 6y ago
As far as I know activestate has a TCL IDE. But I think like lisp, an IDE is a foreign concept in coding TCL. TCL is a different beast, it cannot be represented with an EBNF, you can redefine anything including language keywords etc. TCL is thus closer to a human language (much more expressive) so making an IDE to accomodate features of TCL could be harder than conventional languages.
- aidenn0 6y ago
  "like lisp"? The high quality free IDE (SLIME) is a big part of why I still use common lisp.
  - terminalcommand 6y ago
    I wouldn’t call slime an IDE, lisp compiler isn’t even included in it. Slime is a wonderful editor mode. You still need to configure things to get it working. With an IDE, I think of something like Xcode or VS.
    - aidenn0 6y ago
      I think anything that Integrates the tools used for your Development Environment is an IDE. SLIME integrates a compiler, debugger, code browser, documentation, and editor. If it's not an IDE than nothing is (and there are no Java IDEs either then because they almost always use an external compiler and runtime).
      - terminalcommand 6y ago
        The line between IDEs and editors get blurry every day :). You’re right java IDEs sometimes don’t include java sdk in the base package. I’ve recently been fiddling with ios development, when thinking of an IDE, I think of xcode, visual studio etc. Lots of defaults and magic. Slime might very well be considered an IDE, an IDE for power users :) who likely have learned at least some emacs lisp to get it working.

qwerty456127 6y ago

What about Python/Tkinter?

app4soft 6y ago
Not sure about Tkinter for Android[0], but for Python for Android take a look on Kivy/Py4A.[1,2] As for Py/Qt for Android there is QPython.[3] But, sadly, there are NO good Android alternative to "PyS60" (Python for Symbian S60).[4] [0] https://learning-python.com/using-tkinter-programs-on-android.html https://learning-python.com/using-tkinter-programs-on-androi... [1] https://github.com/kivy/kivy https://github.com/kivy/kivy [2] https://github.com/kivymd/KivyMD https://github.com/kivymd/KivyMD [3] https://github.com/qpython-android/qpython3 https://github.com/qpython-android/qpython3 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PyS60 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PyS60

nmstoker 6y ago

Is there some reason they seem to studiously avoid screenshots of the apps? I looked over the site and couldn't see anything, even in the PDFs of their presentations except for one which had a tiny image that looked awful and had rather 1980s style colouring. I know the technical detail will be more interesting to those who buy in, but to get people to buy into just how wonderful the idea is you need a bit more than a text description of it!

duskwuff 6y ago
There are a couple of screenshots at: https://www.androwish.org/index.html/wiki?name=Example+Scripts https://www.androwish.org/index.html/wiki?name=Example+Scrip... What I see there does not look promising. The results all look like desktop applications running on a tablet -- not mobile applications. Many of the controls (like scrollbars, grid views, and drop-down menus) are likely to be unusable in a touch interface because they are far too small to interact with reliably.
- fayten 6y ago
  Decent Espresso uses AndroWish for their software found here(scroll down for screenshots): https://decentespresso.com/downloads https://decentespresso.com/downloads A talk on it can also be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey30Cg1fM0Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey30Cg1fM0Q Original HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20571113 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20571113 Those screenshots on Androwish's site appear to all be using the base theme. Tk is completely themeable and is pretty easy to extend. There is a repo that is making a large collection of open source themes available for tk and tkinter found here: https://github.com/TkinterEP/ttkthemes https://github.com/TkinterEP/ttkthemes. Another nice theme is a port of KDEs breeze theme: https://github.com/MaxPerl/ttk-Breeze https://github.com/MaxPerl/ttk-Breeze This isn't AndroWish related, but RattleCAD is a nice looking desktop Tcl/Tk application: http://www.rattlecad.com/ http://www.rattlecad.com/