5 ms·

I believe that, as you say, the core of the issue is that some students are well versed at the start, and some have no knowledge whatsoever. As a student that

by jcnnghm 15y ago

I believe that, as you say, the core of the issue is that some students are well versed at the start, and some have no knowledge whatsoever. As a student that was well versed, I can say with absolute certainty that I found it very frustrating to be paying thousands to learn the difference between = and ==, and the function of if statements. If you are well versed, at least the first two years of computer science curriculum are painfully easy, and the only interesting thing to do is see how quickly you can complete assignments. Perhaps Computer Science should be treated differently because of this issue. If every student took a 1-credit skills evaluation and placement course, they could be assessed and properly placed so the students that already have some knowledge can move ahead and start learning right away, while the remaining students can take the introductory courses at an appropriate pace.

yummyfajitas 15y ago
...assessed and properly placed so the students that already have some knowledge can move ahead and start learning right away, while the remaining students can take the introductory courses at an appropriate pace. And enrollment would drop because half the class skips years 1 and 2. Not to mention costs would rise, because instead of paying for a 250 student lecture on "=" vs "==", you'd be paying for a 50 student lecture on compilers. Good for the students, but bad for the college. Probably will never happen, except at a few very good schools.
- jcnnghm 15y ago
  I absolutely agree with you. This issue could be addressed, but won't be.
dangrossman 15y ago
I went to Drexel University. There was a required introductory course, with a little bit of JavaScript programming, that weeded out many people that would immediately change majors. After that, anyone could skip the 2-3 C++ programming courses by taking placement exams, as you suggest.
- jcnnghm 15y ago
  Did they charge for the placement exams? The school I attended had credit by exam, but it cost the same, or nearly the same, as actually taking the course. What was the placement exam like? I think to really be fair an exam like that shouldn't be so much a C++ exam, as it should be a programming exam. In other words, C++ syntax isn't as important as understanding what polymorphism is. It should be acceptable to answer programming questions on an exam like that in pseudo code.
  - dangrossman 15y ago
    The tests were free, if you passed you simply had permission to take the higher level courses without those prerequisites. It's been a long time so I might be mis-remembering, but I remember there being some short answer questions, I think C++ was used in questions where you were asked to look at code, but pseudocode was acceptable for answering the programming questions.
bruce511 15y ago
We had the same issue with the first couple semesters - there were a bunch of us that could breeze through the assignments in a couple hours, which left us most of two weeks till the next one. To combat this we assigned ourselves numerous programming challenges - mostly code for code's sake, but effectively sponging techniques off each other. We effectively competed with each other to see who could do what better. We also went overboard with the assignments a bit - we'd take the basic assignment and "add features" to out-do each other. Often we'd have to hand in a "normal" solution though for marking - the marker didn't appreciate a 20 page printout for a problem that should be half a page of code. And of course there was also some time taken to help others - to effectively give them "extra assignments" to get their code up to scratch. We had access to equipment which we certainly couldn't afford ourselves (although it's laughingly primitive by today's standards) so there was never any shortage of creative ideas. To make things a little more interesting we also signed up for other classes in the science faculty outside of "only" computer science. I did classes in Oceanography and Astronomy, Physics, Applied Maths and so on. The courses were a lot of fun, but the exams were a pain.

by jcnnghm 15y ago

yummyfajitas 15y ago

...assessed and properly placed so the students that already have some knowledge can move ahead and start learning right away, while the remaining students can take the introductory courses at an appropriate pace. And enrollment would drop because half the class skips years 1 and 2. Not to mention costs would rise, because instead of paying for a 250 student lecture on "=" vs "==", you'd be paying for a 50 student lecture on compilers. Good for the students, but bad for the college. Probably will never happen, except at a few very good schools.

jcnnghm 15y ago
I absolutely agree with you. This issue could be addressed, but won't be.

dangrossman 15y ago

I went to Drexel University. There was a required introductory course, with a little bit of JavaScript programming, that weeded out many people that would immediately change majors. After that, anyone could skip the 2-3 C++ programming courses by taking placement exams, as you suggest.

jcnnghm 15y ago
Did they charge for the placement exams? The school I attended had credit by exam, but it cost the same, or nearly the same, as actually taking the course. What was the placement exam like? I think to really be fair an exam like that shouldn't be so much a C++ exam, as it should be a programming exam. In other words, C++ syntax isn't as important as understanding what polymorphism is. It should be acceptable to answer programming questions on an exam like that in pseudo code.
- dangrossman 15y ago
  The tests were free, if you passed you simply had permission to take the higher level courses without those prerequisites. It's been a long time so I might be mis-remembering, but I remember there being some short answer questions, I think C++ was used in questions where you were asked to look at code, but pseudocode was acceptable for answering the programming questions.

bruce511 15y ago

We had the same issue with the first couple semesters - there were a bunch of us that could breeze through the assignments in a couple hours, which left us most of two weeks till the next one. To combat this we assigned ourselves numerous programming challenges - mostly code for code's sake, but effectively sponging techniques off each other. We effectively competed with each other to see who could do what better. We also went overboard with the assignments a bit - we'd take the basic assignment and "add features" to out-do each other. Often we'd have to hand in a "normal" solution though for marking - the marker didn't appreciate a 20 page printout for a problem that should be half a page of code. And of course there was also some time taken to help others - to effectively give them "extra assignments" to get their code up to scratch. We had access to equipment which we certainly couldn't afford ourselves (although it's laughingly primitive by today's standards) so there was never any shortage of creative ideas. To make things a little more interesting we also signed up for other classes in the science faculty outside of "only" computer science. I did classes in Oceanography and Astronomy, Physics, Applied Maths and so on. The courses were a lot of fun, but the exams were a pain.