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The need to "stick it out" is strongly influenced by parenthood. Without children, marriage is ephemeral. The need to formalise a relationship with a marriage

The need to "stick it out" is strongly influenced by parenthood. Without children, marriage is ephemeral. The need to formalise a relationship with a marriage ceremony is traditionally linked to religion. Without religion, children or a stable income, why would a person need or want to get married?

ssully 6y ago
It's traditionally linked to religion, but not exclusive to it. Outside of the legal status, getting married is still a way to formalize and celebrate your commitment to someone.
- wombatmobile 6y ago
  Fair enough. That's a nice thought - two people with unstable income and a modest support network joining together for love, and making it last. Thanks for that, ssully!
- jen20 6y ago
  This reminds me somewhat of the 'Pont des Arts' in Paris - where couples often affix padlocks to the railing and throw the key into the water as a symbol of commitment. The number of combination locks on there was quite notable last time I saw it!
  - luhn 6y ago
    The weight of the locks was damaging the bridge, so they removed them in 2015. https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/paris-love-locks-bridges-feat/index.html https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/paris-love-locks-bridges-...
jariel 6y ago
Why do oxygen atoms pair up? For many, there's considerably more stability in the situation for a lot of reasons. Obviously not always, but even if 'someone doesn't have children' - we're still mostly designed to behave in a social context where there are children. So a 'childless' marriage is one-step removed from the classical state, it's still pretty close.
NegativeLatency 6y ago
Taxes?
- loeg 6y ago
  A mixed bag depending on your incomes. There used to be a marriage penalty for similar-income dual-earner households, but that was mostly erased with TCAJ (2017). (There's still a marriage penalty for very high dual-earner households.) I don't think most people get married for tax reasons.
emidln 6y ago
In many places privacy laws prevent unmarried partners from being automatically notified in medical situations, from making medical decisions, and misc other medical situations you might expect your committed partner to be involved. This probably doesn't matter as long as you are conscious, but if you've involved in an accident or become incapacitated, you'd need a living will on file to have your partner participate in some of these.
- damnencryption 6y ago
  This is why I carry a digital documentation describing what to do with me if I am in that situation. My phone's lockscreen has a note on how to check it. I wonder if there is any standard place I can put the information on what to do if I am on brink of death somewhere so hospitals know to check for it.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rdschouw 6y ago
No it is not. Our society is build around people living together are married. You get more rights (inheritance, euthanasia, etc) and benefits (pooling your taxes). It is that way because it was the default for a long time. Now it is shifting and it will take time for society to adjust to this new reality.
- mlrtime 6y ago
  RE: taxes Look into the marriage tax penalty, in some situations you will pay more (both high income earners)
mywacaday 6y ago
There are Tax benefits in some countries.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
KMag 6y ago
Signalling commitment. My wife and I got married in our mid 30s. If you're a strait guy with a good career, keeping yourself fit, reasonably good looking, no kids, and without religious/cultural reasons to get married, the main advantage of marriage is to reduce relationship anxiety in your partner. A lot of single guys in my position in their mid-late 30s, some of them friends of mine, tend to date women in their mid 20s. Women in their mid 30s know there's a big risk of losing reasonably successful and fit partners to younger women, and their anxiety puts strain on the relationship. Entering into a bond of mutually assured financial and social destruction with my partner made her feel much more secure and thereby greatly reduces stress in the relationship. When I was in my late 20s, I also had good chemistry with a female friend who was 32 or 33. She hinted pretty strongly on several occasions that she thought we'd make a good couple. Unfortunately, she had a poor relationship with her father which is a no-go for me due to past bad experiences. I remember she confided in me that she felt like she needed to start looking to date guys in their late 40s/early 50s. She was good looking and a graduate student at Columbia University at the time. A lot of women in their mid 30s who should have very good dating prospects have a lot of stress about being passed over for younger women, and unfortunately they're often not wrong to worry. If you can't imagine leaving your partner for someone else, and they're worried about being left because they're seeing their friends getting left, words are cheap and your partner will know it. If you can't imagine leaving your partner, then there aren't many downsides to getting married, and your partner will also know this. Of course, there are others in different situations, but that's the experience of me, my wife, some of my wife's single female friends, and some of my single female friends in their mid-30s. Several of them very pleasant good looking women with graduate degrees from Ivy League schools and good careers. So, for me, I had gotten a bit tired of the dating scene, really liked my partner, couldn't imagine breaking up, and knew my parter was getting anxious. For us, it was a good move, and has made our relationship much stronger.
- fizwhiz 6y ago
  > Unfortunately, she had a poor relationship with her father which is a no-go for me due to past bad experiences. Genuinely curious why this was (for you) a leading indicator of a bad relationship?
jaaron 6y ago
Reiterating what KMag wrote below: For some, publicly declaring your commitment to one another can have a powerful affect on the relationship. It can communicate a shared vision and commitment for a lifetime. It is not requisite for that commitment, but it leverages cultural support structures that can help keep a relationship healthy. For me personally, I believe marriage provides a couple with an important concept that they are part of something greater than themselves. This is not an exclusively religious idea (I consider myself an atheist). When times are difficult (and they will be over the course of a lifetime), this bond can help a relationship survive when otherwise the pressure to give up can be significant.
wtetzner 6y ago
> Without religion, children or a stable income, why would a person need or want to get married? I suppose there are legal reasons to get married.
derbOac 6y ago
I have a friend whose girlfriend and him felt that way until a recent experience. They were applying for jobs in the same place, same people interviewing them etc. People didnt know they were dating. When they found out he was partnered, they treated it very seriously, as if they were in a committed relationship, deserving of protection etc. When they found out she was partnered, it was different, he was just a boyfriend of who knows what status etc. They decided to get married after that experience. As others have noted, the purpose of marriage is to protect the relationship, but what that really means is protecting each other. In some cases this means ensuring equity of treatment. Similar cases have shown up with COVID. Every couple of months this year I've listened to news stories about couples dealing with cross border restrictions on being able to see each other. The last one included a couple who had been together for years and were despairing about the fact that protections of border crossing only extended to married couples. I'm not suggesting judgement should be cast on them for not being married, as that's between them, but it's another example of how representing the significance of the relationship to the state can have consequences.

ssully 6y ago

It's traditionally linked to religion, but not exclusive to it. Outside of the legal status, getting married is still a way to formalize and celebrate your commitment to someone.

wombatmobile 6y ago
Fair enough. That's a nice thought - two people with unstable income and a modest support network joining together for love, and making it last. Thanks for that, ssully!
jen20 6y ago
This reminds me somewhat of the 'Pont des Arts' in Paris - where couples often affix padlocks to the railing and throw the key into the water as a symbol of commitment. The number of combination locks on there was quite notable last time I saw it!
- luhn 6y ago
  The weight of the locks was damaging the bridge, so they removed them in 2015. https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/paris-love-locks-bridges-feat/index.html https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/paris-love-locks-bridges-...

jariel 6y ago

Why do oxygen atoms pair up? For many, there's considerably more stability in the situation for a lot of reasons. Obviously not always, but even if 'someone doesn't have children' - we're still mostly designed to behave in a social context where there are children. So a 'childless' marriage is one-step removed from the classical state, it's still pretty close.

NegativeLatency 6y ago

Taxes?

loeg 6y ago
A mixed bag depending on your incomes. There used to be a marriage penalty for similar-income dual-earner households, but that was mostly erased with TCAJ (2017). (There's still a marriage penalty for very high dual-earner households.) I don't think most people get married for tax reasons.

emidln 6y ago

In many places privacy laws prevent unmarried partners from being automatically notified in medical situations, from making medical decisions, and misc other medical situations you might expect your committed partner to be involved. This probably doesn't matter as long as you are conscious, but if you've involved in an accident or become incapacitated, you'd need a living will on file to have your partner participate in some of these.

damnencryption 6y ago
This is why I carry a digital documentation describing what to do with me if I am in that situation. My phone's lockscreen has a note on how to check it. I wonder if there is any standard place I can put the information on what to do if I am on brink of death somewhere so hospitals know to check for it.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

rdschouw 6y ago

No it is not. Our society is build around people living together are married. You get more rights (inheritance, euthanasia, etc) and benefits (pooling your taxes). It is that way because it was the default for a long time. Now it is shifting and it will take time for society to adjust to this new reality.

mlrtime 6y ago
RE: taxes Look into the marriage tax penalty, in some situations you will pay more (both high income earners)

mywacaday 6y ago

There are Tax benefits in some countries.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

KMag 6y ago

Signalling commitment. My wife and I got married in our mid 30s. If you're a strait guy with a good career, keeping yourself fit, reasonably good looking, no kids, and without religious/cultural reasons to get married, the main advantage of marriage is to reduce relationship anxiety in your partner. A lot of single guys in my position in their mid-late 30s, some of them friends of mine, tend to date women in their mid 20s. Women in their mid 30s know there's a big risk of losing reasonably successful and fit partners to younger women, and their anxiety puts strain on the relationship. Entering into a bond of mutually assured financial and social destruction with my partner made her feel much more secure and thereby greatly reduces stress in the relationship. When I was in my late 20s, I also had good chemistry with a female friend who was 32 or 33. She hinted pretty strongly on several occasions that she thought we'd make a good couple. Unfortunately, she had a poor relationship with her father which is a no-go for me due to past bad experiences. I remember she confided in me that she felt like she needed to start looking to date guys in their late 40s/early 50s. She was good looking and a graduate student at Columbia University at the time. A lot of women in their mid 30s who should have very good dating prospects have a lot of stress about being passed over for younger women, and unfortunately they're often not wrong to worry. If you can't imagine leaving your partner for someone else, and they're worried about being left because they're seeing their friends getting left, words are cheap and your partner will know it. If you can't imagine leaving your partner, then there aren't many downsides to getting married, and your partner will also know this. Of course, there are others in different situations, but that's the experience of me, my wife, some of my wife's single female friends, and some of my single female friends in their mid-30s. Several of them very pleasant good looking women with graduate degrees from Ivy League schools and good careers. So, for me, I had gotten a bit tired of the dating scene, really liked my partner, couldn't imagine breaking up, and knew my parter was getting anxious. For us, it was a good move, and has made our relationship much stronger.

fizwhiz 6y ago
> Unfortunately, she had a poor relationship with her father which is a no-go for me due to past bad experiences. Genuinely curious why this was (for you) a leading indicator of a bad relationship?

jaaron 6y ago

Reiterating what KMag wrote below: For some, publicly declaring your commitment to one another can have a powerful affect on the relationship. It can communicate a shared vision and commitment for a lifetime. It is not requisite for that commitment, but it leverages cultural support structures that can help keep a relationship healthy. For me personally, I believe marriage provides a couple with an important concept that they are part of something greater than themselves. This is not an exclusively religious idea (I consider myself an atheist). When times are difficult (and they will be over the course of a lifetime), this bond can help a relationship survive when otherwise the pressure to give up can be significant.

wtetzner 6y ago

> Without religion, children or a stable income, why would a person need or want to get married? I suppose there are legal reasons to get married.

derbOac 6y ago

I have a friend whose girlfriend and him felt that way until a recent experience. They were applying for jobs in the same place, same people interviewing them etc. People didnt know they were dating. When they found out he was partnered, they treated it very seriously, as if they were in a committed relationship, deserving of protection etc. When they found out she was partnered, it was different, he was just a boyfriend of who knows what status etc. They decided to get married after that experience. As others have noted, the purpose of marriage is to protect the relationship, but what that really means is protecting each other. In some cases this means ensuring equity of treatment. Similar cases have shown up with COVID. Every couple of months this year I've listened to news stories about couples dealing with cross border restrictions on being able to see each other. The last one included a couple who had been together for years and were despairing about the fact that protections of border crossing only extended to married couples. I'm not suggesting judgement should be cast on them for not being married, as that's between them, but it's another example of how representing the significance of the relationship to the state can have consequences.