5 ms·

They did it. They finally added comping. I would be buying the upgrade if that was the only feature but there's so many!

salimmadjd 6y ago
For someone like me who uses Logic, is there a reason to use Ableton? Logic is only one $200 lifetime fee
- wrs 6y ago
  I’ve used both for many years and enjoy both. They’re largely equivalent in function, but they have very different feels. Ableton is more “hands on” and almost modeless. It assumes that you’re always manipulating and reworking things. Logic is more structured and “modeful”. Examples: Ableton defaults to time-stretching and transient slicing for audio; you have to turn it on in Logic. Ableton’s always in what Logic calls “marquee” mode, so you can grab pieces of audio and move them around. Ableton always shows you all the controls of all the (built-in) plugins; Logic makes you open them one by one. Routing in Ableton is dynamic; Logic has fixed “busses” you have to allocate manually. Other than style, one killer difference is that Ableton has Push hardware, which is really an extension of the UI into physical reality. It’s a fantastic control surface that has no equivalent in Logic-world. And of course, with all those features you can create amazing live setups with Ableton—thus the name “Live”! Logic’s comfort zone is very much as a studio tool. Edit: I forgot to mention the higher versions of Live come with Max for Live, which is an amazing construction set for making audio/MIDI software. No Logic equivalent for that.
- breakfastduck 6y ago
  I converted to Ableton from Logic (pre logic x) a long time ago, but I still use logic sometimes. There’s lots of small differences, and obviously you can make any type of music successfully on either, but generally my advice would be: If you prefer recording traditional instruments & band tracks stay with logic, If you prefer experimenting with sound design & electronic music in general, try ableton out. Also if you’re a programmer because you’ll enjoy max for live and the max MSP ecosystem.
  - arvinsim 6y ago
    Seems right. Although I chose Ableton because it's cross platform even if I do guitar primarily.
- dham 6y ago
  But then you would have to use Mac, which breaks third party plugins every 1 year or so. Most the stuff I invested in when I got started hasn't worked since Lion. All other things that survived were dead with Catalina. Windows you can install stuff from 2003 and run no issue. Work on ARM lol. Most DAWS don't even support 4k monitors. Reason, MPC, Maschine. Not to mention the countless popular plugins that are the size of rain drop on the screen (Ominisphere)
- scarecrowbob 6y ago
  I dunno if there is one. I get a lot of work done in logic. I ended up with an octatrack for doing what a lot of folks are using live for, tho, and that's been super fun for me.
- SomeHacker44 6y ago
  You can stop using Apple hardware for no additional software cost if you use Ableton.
- pier25 6y ago
  True but Apple makes it so cheap because they get their money back on hardware.
- puranjay 6y ago
  To me, Ableton is as much a performance tool as it is a production tool. I used to limit myself to production, then I bought a Push controller and it completely changed my workflow.
nfoz 6y ago
What is "comping"?
- _fs 6y ago
  Multiple takes intermixed on a single track. https://www.ableton.com/en/live/#comping https://www.ableton.com/en/live/#comping
- XzAeRosho 6y ago
  Recording different takes, and then piece different parts of those takes and create one final "perfect" take.
- sullyj3 6y ago
  It's short for "composite" recording. As in, mixing several takes together to form a single one with the best bits of all of them. Strictly speaking you can already do this using multiple tracks, but having a dedicated workflow will make it much easier.
lostgame 6y ago
Seriously. That alone has been one of the big things keeping me firmly in Logic Pro's camp. I'm also glad they're starting to add more instruments to the default package (notably, finally; a proper 'Upright Piano') - as the value proposition of Ableton Standard at $400 vs Logic Pro at $200 has been extremely one-sided in Logic's favour for many, many years now. I do understand, of course; I'm strictly speaking as a Mac user. I honestly have no idea about the DAW landscape for PC's. I am extremely reliant on exporting songs from GarageBand on my iPhone as I create beats on the go quite often - and opening those .garageband files in Logic Pro to seriously hone in on the sounds, keeping the original instruments and MIDI intact. It's an irreplaceable ecosystem for me.
- timrichard 6y ago
  It looks like a good update, but I'm starting to give up hope on seeing ARA2 as a feature... :-( Something that wasn't a problem for $200 Logic Pro or even $60 Reaper (with their two-person dev team).
  - galaxyLogic 6y ago
    What is ARA2?
    - detaro 6y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Random_Access https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Random_Access
    - timrichard 6y ago
      Following on from the link of the other poster, the Random Access part allows plugins like Melodyne to "see" all the audio data that's on the track all at once, without you having to transfer it inside the plugin manually. You just start working with it seamlessly in an edit window. It's a neat idea.
  - lostgame 6y ago
    I am consistently pleasantly surprised by the way Apple consistently updates Logic with only more and more layers of impressive features. ARA2 support was fantastic - so was their buyout of Camel's Alchemy. Alchemy alone added a ton of value to Logic, and it came as a .x upgrade. Fantastic. EDIT: One of the only selling points of an iPad I can think of is using it on a stand with Logic Remote as an actual digital mixing window. The experience is unparalleled.

salimmadjd 6y ago

For someone like me who uses Logic, is there a reason to use Ableton? Logic is only one $200 lifetime fee

wrs 6y ago
I’ve used both for many years and enjoy both. They’re largely equivalent in function, but they have very different feels. Ableton is more “hands on” and almost modeless. It assumes that you’re always manipulating and reworking things. Logic is more structured and “modeful”. Examples: Ableton defaults to time-stretching and transient slicing for audio; you have to turn it on in Logic. Ableton’s always in what Logic calls “marquee” mode, so you can grab pieces of audio and move them around. Ableton always shows you all the controls of all the (built-in) plugins; Logic makes you open them one by one. Routing in Ableton is dynamic; Logic has fixed “busses” you have to allocate manually. Other than style, one killer difference is that Ableton has Push hardware, which is really an extension of the UI into physical reality. It’s a fantastic control surface that has no equivalent in Logic-world. And of course, with all those features you can create amazing live setups with Ableton—thus the name “Live”! Logic’s comfort zone is very much as a studio tool. Edit: I forgot to mention the higher versions of Live come with Max for Live, which is an amazing construction set for making audio/MIDI software. No Logic equivalent for that.
breakfastduck 6y ago
I converted to Ableton from Logic (pre logic x) a long time ago, but I still use logic sometimes. There’s lots of small differences, and obviously you can make any type of music successfully on either, but generally my advice would be: If you prefer recording traditional instruments & band tracks stay with logic, If you prefer experimenting with sound design & electronic music in general, try ableton out. Also if you’re a programmer because you’ll enjoy max for live and the max MSP ecosystem.
- arvinsim 6y ago
  Seems right. Although I chose Ableton because it's cross platform even if I do guitar primarily.
dham 6y ago
But then you would have to use Mac, which breaks third party plugins every 1 year or so. Most the stuff I invested in when I got started hasn't worked since Lion. All other things that survived were dead with Catalina. Windows you can install stuff from 2003 and run no issue. Work on ARM lol. Most DAWS don't even support 4k monitors. Reason, MPC, Maschine. Not to mention the countless popular plugins that are the size of rain drop on the screen (Ominisphere)
scarecrowbob 6y ago
I dunno if there is one. I get a lot of work done in logic. I ended up with an octatrack for doing what a lot of folks are using live for, tho, and that's been super fun for me.
SomeHacker44 6y ago
You can stop using Apple hardware for no additional software cost if you use Ableton.
pier25 6y ago
True but Apple makes it so cheap because they get their money back on hardware.
puranjay 6y ago
To me, Ableton is as much a performance tool as it is a production tool. I used to limit myself to production, then I bought a Push controller and it completely changed my workflow.

nfoz 6y ago

What is "comping"?

_fs 6y ago
Multiple takes intermixed on a single track. https://www.ableton.com/en/live/#comping https://www.ableton.com/en/live/#comping
XzAeRosho 6y ago
Recording different takes, and then piece different parts of those takes and create one final "perfect" take.
sullyj3 6y ago
It's short for "composite" recording. As in, mixing several takes together to form a single one with the best bits of all of them. Strictly speaking you can already do this using multiple tracks, but having a dedicated workflow will make it much easier.

lostgame 6y ago

Seriously. That alone has been one of the big things keeping me firmly in Logic Pro's camp. I'm also glad they're starting to add more instruments to the default package (notably, finally; a proper 'Upright Piano') - as the value proposition of Ableton Standard at $400 vs Logic Pro at $200 has been extremely one-sided in Logic's favour for many, many years now. I do understand, of course; I'm strictly speaking as a Mac user. I honestly have no idea about the DAW landscape for PC's. I am extremely reliant on exporting songs from GarageBand on my iPhone as I create beats on the go quite often - and opening those .garageband files in Logic Pro to seriously hone in on the sounds, keeping the original instruments and MIDI intact. It's an irreplaceable ecosystem for me.

timrichard 6y ago
It looks like a good update, but I'm starting to give up hope on seeing ARA2 as a feature... :-( Something that wasn't a problem for $200 Logic Pro or even $60 Reaper (with their two-person dev team).
- galaxyLogic 6y ago
  What is ARA2?
  - detaro 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Random_Access https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Random_Access
  - timrichard 6y ago
    Following on from the link of the other poster, the Random Access part allows plugins like Melodyne to "see" all the audio data that's on the track all at once, without you having to transfer it inside the plugin manually. You just start working with it seamlessly in an edit window. It's a neat idea.
- lostgame 6y ago
  I am consistently pleasantly surprised by the way Apple consistently updates Logic with only more and more layers of impressive features. ARA2 support was fantastic - so was their buyout of Camel's Alchemy. Alchemy alone added a ton of value to Logic, and it came as a .x upgrade. Fantastic. EDIT: One of the only selling points of an iPad I can think of is using it on a stand with Logic Remote as an actual digital mixing window. The experience is unparalleled.