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> practically ensures that third party software will either not exist or be shit as well I don’t see this at all. The Mac has long had a culture of extremely d

> practically ensures that third party software will either not exist or be shit as well I don’t see this at all. The Mac has long had a culture of extremely dedicated developers who have fully acculturated themselves into a design-oriented, performance focused culture that presents a stark contrast to the cultures of Windows or Web development. Third party software in the Mac has generally been extremely thoughtful and well designed. There is plenty of shitty software on iOS, but that has a lot more to do with the amount of shovelware thrown into the store than anything inherent to Objective C.

joshspankit 6y ago
Agree on this: 3rd party software on Apple’s Operating Systems have reached really stunning, intuitive, and beautiful heights. Unfortunately I feel that the current trend towards more restriction is making many of those talented developers tap out, and is burying the older software that would otherwise be just as excellent today if it was still allowed to run, but the possibility of those wins keeps me on MacOS through all the losses. I may have a gambling problem.
- zepto 6y ago
  I think this is a transition phase. It is true that increasing restrictions have been making it harder for old school developers. It’s also true that Apple has had a pattern of first locking things down, and then finding new, more secure and reliable ways of opening them back up again. Extensions are an obvious example of this pattern. This is just a consequence of moving from a benign network environment to one in which hostile adversaries are trying to both socially engineer as well as exploit any computer or individual that is vulnerable. We all have to adapt to this reality.
  - joshspankit 6y ago
    My instinct says otherwise regarding this being a transition phase on the road to being more open, but I genuinely hope you’re right.
    - zepto 6y ago
      By ‘open’ I don’t mean that Apple will cede control of the platform. I see that increasing. I mean open to customization and the development of a wider range of user experiences - which is what old school apps were about.
      - joshspankit 6y ago
        Even if it’s just the openness of the customization, I’d still like to see that
        zepto 6y ago
        That, I do expect.
- naravara 6y ago
  Admittedly I haven’t had much direct experience of this, but most of the old guard Mac developers I follow seem more put off and burnt out by the vagaries of the App Store than by technical limitations at the OS level. I think there is plenty to complain about on that front.
Hammershaft 6y ago
Third party developers have done significantly better than Apple themselves. The core design and reliability of MacOS seems to get more half baked with every update.
- naravara 6y ago
  I don’t know. I used to avoid updating my OS for a month or two until they ironed all the kinks out, which I don’t worry about so much anymore. I remember updating to Jaguar ended up killing my mouse drivers somehow and I had to manually restore my computer using only the keyboard. I hadn’t actually learned any UNIX or the command line yet back then, so that was a fun exercise.

joshspankit 6y ago

Agree on this: 3rd party software on Apple’s Operating Systems have reached really stunning, intuitive, and beautiful heights. Unfortunately I feel that the current trend towards more restriction is making many of those talented developers tap out, and is burying the older software that would otherwise be just as excellent today if it was still allowed to run, but the possibility of those wins keeps me on MacOS through all the losses. I may have a gambling problem.

zepto 6y ago
I think this is a transition phase. It is true that increasing restrictions have been making it harder for old school developers. It’s also true that Apple has had a pattern of first locking things down, and then finding new, more secure and reliable ways of opening them back up again. Extensions are an obvious example of this pattern. This is just a consequence of moving from a benign network environment to one in which hostile adversaries are trying to both socially engineer as well as exploit any computer or individual that is vulnerable. We all have to adapt to this reality.
- joshspankit 6y ago
  My instinct says otherwise regarding this being a transition phase on the road to being more open, but I genuinely hope you’re right.
  - zepto 6y ago
    By ‘open’ I don’t mean that Apple will cede control of the platform. I see that increasing. I mean open to customization and the development of a wider range of user experiences - which is what old school apps were about.
    - joshspankit 6y ago
      Even if it’s just the openness of the customization, I’d still like to see that
      - zepto 6y ago
        That, I do expect.
naravara 6y ago
Admittedly I haven’t had much direct experience of this, but most of the old guard Mac developers I follow seem more put off and burnt out by the vagaries of the App Store than by technical limitations at the OS level. I think there is plenty to complain about on that front.

Hammershaft 6y ago

Third party developers have done significantly better than Apple themselves. The core design and reliability of MacOS seems to get more half baked with every update.

naravara 6y ago
I don’t know. I used to avoid updating my OS for a month or two until they ironed all the kinks out, which I don’t worry about so much anymore. I remember updating to Jaguar ended up killing my mouse drivers somehow and I had to manually restore my computer using only the keyboard. I hadn’t actually learned any UNIX or the command line yet back then, so that was a fun exercise.