3 ms·

16GB memory is completely fine for me. I have had it the last 5 years and never had even close to saturation. But I do use two screens every day.

AshamedCaptain 6y ago
That is the problem. In _2015_ I bought a tablet PC (!) which had 16GB of RAM. I've been having 16GB of RAM as standard/minimum for at least 5 years already. And it was on the same pricing that these 2020 machines which have 16GB of RAM _as a maximum_. I am not willing the entertain the idea "more RAM is no longer possible nor necessary", either. Software keeps creeping up as usual (MS Teams _by itself_ uses >2GB, and I have already complained dearly -- Teams is basically a glorified IRC client!). And next year if not this year already it's highly likely my phone will have 16GB of RAM. My phone! On my pocket! It's just ridiculous that a $1200 laptop has 8 GB, and it is just unbelievable it maxes out at 16GB. Looks designed to be thrown away next year.
- simonh 6y ago
  What laptop manufacturers sell $1200 laptops that don't come with a base 8GB RAM option? I don't know any. Not Dell, or HP, or Lenovo. Apple still sells 13" Macbook Pros that go up to 32GB RAM, they're just Intel ones. If you need more than 16 GB in a Pro Mac, or a Mini you can still get it. So these options have not been taken off the table. The M1 machines simply offer a new tradeoff of smaller but faster memory if that works for you. Not every machine needs to offer every possible configuration.
  - easde 6y ago
    Dell even sold a 4GB (!) version of the XPS 13 for $999 up until a few months ago.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >It's just ridiculous that a $1200 laptop has 8 GB Is it? Dell sells a $1499 laptop with 8GB. They also have 16GB models, but once you add specs equivalent to the new MacBook (at least i7, SSD, 13") the prices are $1299 and above (and you get a plastic box, not exactly the same build quality, trackpad, etc - though you do get a probabl better camera and more ports). https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/sr/laptops/intel-core-i7?appliedRefinements=6084,15674,23085,13248 https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/sr/laptops/inte...
rangoon626 6y ago
I thought 16 GB never seemed saturated until I installed 64 GB. The OS will definitely use more if you have more. It seems like I use typically around 32 GB.
aldanor 6y ago
To each his own, I'm close to saturating 2013 32G iMac almost every day. To me personally, anything less than 64-128G these days is a joke, especially given how cheap the ram is (non-integrated, of course).
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
I also think 16GB is a perfectly reasonable amount of memory (and even 8GB is fine on a low-end machine), but the fact that it's the limit is... troubling. I assume it'll be fixed in time, but, still.
jlokier 6y ago
I thought my MBP's 16GB was fine. For a long time I rarely saw usage over 8GB. But for a few months everything was running rather slow and I put it down to other causes. One day I looked at the memory usage and saw it was using 10GB swap in addition to about 14.5GB RAM. And when I clicked things that responded slowly, the memory pressure meter was lighting up. Swapping was why it was slow. It's pretty fast swap, being on SSD, but it was the reason for the slowdowns. Probably not doing the SSD any good either (they wear out if written to constantly). Turns out Safari was using 8GB by itself. Restarting Safari helped (it's quick to restart which is nice). Safari, like Chrome, uses a lot of memory after opening a bunch of tabs because of using separate processes for each tab. I also use Firefox, but it uses 6-8GB for me too. Then there's my VM running my Linux dev environment. Now I only give it 4GB, which is a bit tight but I run some things remotely so it's ok. I had to shrink it from 6GB to get my performance back. Sometimes I'm foolish enough to have LibreOffice or MS Word open to look at documents. They aren't memory hogs, but when you've lost most of it to the browser(s) and dev VM, little things like office apps push it a few GB over the edge. I'm also running Emacs with quite a lot loaded into it, and many iTerms, but they use so little RAM compared with the big stuff, it barely registers. Nowadays I pay more attention to memory use, mostly use only one browser at a time, and restart more often. Even so, it's hovering around 5GB swap at the moment, and I haven't got much going on at the moment. Based on this, I know I can live with 16GB but it is restricting what I use and how I work now. 32GB would be let me stop thinking about RAM again, and I expect in a few years it will be nearly full, as usage tends to grow over time (as I found already). If I could buy a new MBP knowing I could upgrade the RAM I'd be happy to buy at 16GB, but as you can't upgrade, and I want a new laptop to last at least 5 years, I wouldn't be comfortable buying a dev machine at 16GB now.

AshamedCaptain 6y ago

That is the problem. In _2015_ I bought a tablet PC (!) which had 16GB of RAM. I've been having 16GB of RAM as standard/minimum for at least 5 years already. And it was on the same pricing that these 2020 machines which have 16GB of RAM _as a maximum_. I am not willing the entertain the idea "more RAM is no longer possible nor necessary", either. Software keeps creeping up as usual (MS Teams _by itself_ uses >2GB, and I have already complained dearly -- Teams is basically a glorified IRC client!). And next year if not this year already it's highly likely my phone will have 16GB of RAM. My phone! On my pocket! It's just ridiculous that a $1200 laptop has 8 GB, and it is just unbelievable it maxes out at 16GB. Looks designed to be thrown away next year.

simonh 6y ago
What laptop manufacturers sell $1200 laptops that don't come with a base 8GB RAM option? I don't know any. Not Dell, or HP, or Lenovo. Apple still sells 13" Macbook Pros that go up to 32GB RAM, they're just Intel ones. If you need more than 16 GB in a Pro Mac, or a Mini you can still get it. So these options have not been taken off the table. The M1 machines simply offer a new tradeoff of smaller but faster memory if that works for you. Not every machine needs to offer every possible configuration.
- easde 6y ago
  Dell even sold a 4GB (!) version of the XPS 13 for $999 up until a few months ago.
coldtea 6y ago
>It's just ridiculous that a $1200 laptop has 8 GB Is it? Dell sells a $1499 laptop with 8GB. They also have 16GB models, but once you add specs equivalent to the new MacBook (at least i7, SSD, 13") the prices are $1299 and above (and you get a plastic box, not exactly the same build quality, trackpad, etc - though you do get a probabl better camera and more ports). https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/sr/laptops/intel-core-i7?appliedRefinements=6084,15674,23085,13248 https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/sr/laptops/inte...

rangoon626 6y ago

I thought 16 GB never seemed saturated until I installed 64 GB. The OS will definitely use more if you have more. It seems like I use typically around 32 GB.

aldanor 6y ago

To each his own, I'm close to saturating 2013 32G iMac almost every day. To me personally, anything less than 64-128G these days is a joke, especially given how cheap the ram is (non-integrated, of course).

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

I also think 16GB is a perfectly reasonable amount of memory (and even 8GB is fine on a low-end machine), but the fact that it's the limit is... troubling. I assume it'll be fixed in time, but, still.

jlokier 6y ago

I thought my MBP's 16GB was fine. For a long time I rarely saw usage over 8GB. But for a few months everything was running rather slow and I put it down to other causes. One day I looked at the memory usage and saw it was using 10GB swap in addition to about 14.5GB RAM. And when I clicked things that responded slowly, the memory pressure meter was lighting up. Swapping was why it was slow. It's pretty fast swap, being on SSD, but it was the reason for the slowdowns. Probably not doing the SSD any good either (they wear out if written to constantly). Turns out Safari was using 8GB by itself. Restarting Safari helped (it's quick to restart which is nice). Safari, like Chrome, uses a lot of memory after opening a bunch of tabs because of using separate processes for each tab. I also use Firefox, but it uses 6-8GB for me too. Then there's my VM running my Linux dev environment. Now I only give it 4GB, which is a bit tight but I run some things remotely so it's ok. I had to shrink it from 6GB to get my performance back. Sometimes I'm foolish enough to have LibreOffice or MS Word open to look at documents. They aren't memory hogs, but when you've lost most of it to the browser(s) and dev VM, little things like office apps push it a few GB over the edge. I'm also running Emacs with quite a lot loaded into it, and many iTerms, but they use so little RAM compared with the big stuff, it barely registers. Nowadays I pay more attention to memory use, mostly use only one browser at a time, and restart more often. Even so, it's hovering around 5GB swap at the moment, and I haven't got much going on at the moment. Based on this, I know I can live with 16GB but it is restricting what I use and how I work now. 32GB would be let me stop thinking about RAM again, and I expect in a few years it will be nearly full, as usage tends to grow over time (as I found already). If I could buy a new MBP knowing I could upgrade the RAM I'd be happy to buy at 16GB, but as you can't upgrade, and I want a new laptop to last at least 5 years, I wouldn't be comfortable buying a dev machine at 16GB now.