4 ms·

Its not the Dunning-Kruger effect, I would call it the osx effect (or alternatively the nosql or ruby effect). It goes something like this: if you can do somet

Its not the Dunning-Kruger effect, I would call it the osx effect (or alternatively the nosql or ruby effect). It goes something like this: if you can do something in an esoteric way that gets your more respect (both real and imagined) from people in your community, you will do it and lord it over others who do not have this particular knowledge or skill. The respect you get tends to be inversely proportional to the actual value being provided. (ie osx barely gets you any respect nowadays becuase it provides true value for programmers, using nosql at your startup gives you lots of respect even though a sql/mc combo would probably take much less time and effort to actual get running and fine-tuned). This effect generally appears in the following form: i use osx so therefore I am better than Windows users. I know sed so I am better than cli noobs. The opposite of this is the windows effect (aka the php effect), where you get disrepected for using a particular technology regardless of how talented or productive you actually are with it.

paganel 15y ago
> The opposite of this is the windows effect (aka the php effect), where you get disrepected for using a particular technology regardless of how talented or productive you actually are with it. Just wanted to add my related $0.02 rant: Everybody bashes PHP for its associative arrays, but when Python finally implemented the same data-structure (ordered dicts I think they are called) a long, long time after PHP first got them, then everybody started congratulated themselves and saying "what a nice idea the Python guys implemented!".
- maak 15y ago
  I agree with all of these points, and I completely agree that it's not unique to the software industry. Much to our surprise, we're human after all.
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  Sorry to go down that road, but the reason people rag on PHP's associative arrays, is that its the only array that PHP has. A hashmap with mixed keys is hardly the most practical choice for an all purpose primitive data structure. Python already has proper arrays where you might have some chance of fast sequential access. The ordered dict or whatever is just another tool in the box. Basically, PHP makes you do shit like this: http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.is-array.php#102652 http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.is-array.php#102652
  - chalst 15y ago
    The same people don't seem to bash Lua's tables.
    - bxr 15y ago
      They've probably never _used_ Lua's tables.
  - JonnieCache 15y ago
    Hmmmm. I feel I may be proving the OPs entire point rather too well with this line of enquiry. I don't think I've ever trolled myself before. How embarrassing. This kind of thing is trickier in places like HN though, because a statement is only showing off to people who already have the knowledge. There are millions(?) of people reading here, so statistically most of them probably wont know some obscure piece of knowledge about the problems of the key hashing function under random access in numerical PHP arrays. It may be showing off to the couple of people actively engaged in the debate, but to everyone else its educational. That's most of the reason I come here, to be honest. Crumbs of insight casually discarded during the debates of much cleverer people.
  - sjs 15y ago
    Fine, s/Python/JavaScript/ then. Nobody applauds JS for it but neither is it derided as PHP is for this reason.
- kaitnieks 15y ago
  Despite my worries that this is turning into offtopic, I'll note that I haven't noticed that this particular PHP feature gets bashed. I've seen the opposite, people remarking that one of the things that is pleasant in PHP is working with associative arrays.
JoeAltmaier 15y ago
...and the male responds to the female's topic, by boasting via showing off his street cred. Also, I imaginge "lording it over others" may not be the response of a female with skills. Its a male thing. Isn't that her point?
carols10cents 15y ago
Heh, I've felt more out of place as a Windows Ruby developer than I have as a female Ruby developer.

paganel 15y ago

> The opposite of this is the windows effect (aka the php effect), where you get disrepected for using a particular technology regardless of how talented or productive you actually are with it. Just wanted to add my related $0.02 rant: Everybody bashes PHP for its associative arrays, but when Python finally implemented the same data-structure (ordered dicts I think they are called) a long, long time after PHP first got them, then everybody started congratulated themselves and saying "what a nice idea the Python guys implemented!".

maak 15y ago
I agree with all of these points, and I completely agree that it's not unique to the software industry. Much to our surprise, we're human after all.
JonnieCache 15y ago
Sorry to go down that road, but the reason people rag on PHP's associative arrays, is that its the only array that PHP has. A hashmap with mixed keys is hardly the most practical choice for an all purpose primitive data structure. Python already has proper arrays where you might have some chance of fast sequential access. The ordered dict or whatever is just another tool in the box. Basically, PHP makes you do shit like this: http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.is-array.php#102652 http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.is-array.php#102652
- chalst 15y ago
  The same people don't seem to bash Lua's tables.
  - bxr 15y ago
    They've probably never _used_ Lua's tables.
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  Hmmmm. I feel I may be proving the OPs entire point rather too well with this line of enquiry. I don't think I've ever trolled myself before. How embarrassing. This kind of thing is trickier in places like HN though, because a statement is only showing off to people who already have the knowledge. There are millions(?) of people reading here, so statistically most of them probably wont know some obscure piece of knowledge about the problems of the key hashing function under random access in numerical PHP arrays. It may be showing off to the couple of people actively engaged in the debate, but to everyone else its educational. That's most of the reason I come here, to be honest. Crumbs of insight casually discarded during the debates of much cleverer people.
- sjs 15y ago
  Fine, s/Python/JavaScript/ then. Nobody applauds JS for it but neither is it derided as PHP is for this reason.
kaitnieks 15y ago
Despite my worries that this is turning into offtopic, I'll note that I haven't noticed that this particular PHP feature gets bashed. I've seen the opposite, people remarking that one of the things that is pleasant in PHP is working with associative arrays.

JoeAltmaier 15y ago

...and the male responds to the female's topic, by boasting via showing off his street cred. Also, I imaginge "lording it over others" may not be the response of a female with skills. Its a male thing. Isn't that her point?

carols10cents 15y ago

Heh, I've felt more out of place as a Windows Ruby developer than I have as a female Ruby developer.