7 ms·

As someone who grew up in the 80's as a nerd mostly playing video games and never took part in these stupid "boy things", I welcome this new world. I can't unde

As someone who grew up in the 80's as a nerd mostly playing video games and never took part in these stupid "boy things", I welcome this new world. I can't understand a world where it is normal to have a bar fights.

pythonlion 6y ago
as someone with 3 sisters I also welcome reality. Just enroll your kids to judo or some other sports if competition is what they need. only point I find sane is that we need more male teachers but its more like a market problem assuming man can do this job well in case of high demand (good salary)
- DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
  > but its more like a market problem assuming man can do this job well in case of high demand (good salary) Now try replacing male teachers with female CEOs in that sentence and see what happens.
- em-bee 6y ago
  it's not only a market problem. as one schools director told me in new zealand for example parents don't trust male teachers, and it's practically impossible to get a job there working with children as a man.
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    Reading these comments, would you allow any of these men to be around you kids?
    - marakv2 6y ago
      Male teacher here. 37 ex amateur MMA fighter(5 fights), life time of martial arts training. I am one of the most sought out teachers for our kindergarten classes, I'm energetic, friendly and have excellent control of the classroom resulting in students being more interested in attending. I have an excellent record with the quiet and shy students, to the point where other teachers in our other schools are told to speak to me for advice. My history has very little bearing as a teacher, as I do not condone any forms of violence in the classroom. Creating blanket statements without knowledge, results in irrational fears.
  - sjg007 6y ago
    This is totally irrational.
MattGaiser 6y ago
Agreed. Why exactly would we tolerate damaging and costly violence?
- blackflame7000 6y ago
  What if there were a cost on society associated with things not being instantly settled that manifests as growing and deep-seeded hatred of each other in society?
- teataster 6y ago
  Because human nature is something to be tolerated. But yeah, better have kids playing judo than bar fighting.
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    Bullying? murder, domestic violence, child abuse, rape, racism? All these things can be attributed one way or another to human nature because they exist in all human cultures. Should we tolerate them?
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    Except swap their wife for the random guy in a bar and we call it domestic violence and punish it with jail time.
    - xd 6y ago
      DV is generally a pattern of varied abusive behaviour ranging from physical, physiological, controlling, coercion etc.. not a one off bar fight.
- tpoacher 6y ago
  Has it occurred to you that the removal of physical violence does not come for free? It is simply replaced with other types of violence (i.e. psychological / emotional / cyberbullying violence). While I do not condone of physical violence, I would much rather a guy having beef with me to angrily yell at me in person, rather than make up stuff and invite a twitter mob to get me fired.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> I can't understand a world where it is normal to have a bar fights OP was giving an extreme example. When I was young, I made catapults with friends. One weekend we took our five-foot trebuchets and bombarded a neighbour’s house. I don’t recall the exact damage we did. It wasn’t major, no broken windows. But it wasn’t insignificant either: garden shredded, porcelain gnomes destroyed. We had the riot act read to us. In exchange for not telling our parents we agreed to work their garden for the summer. It never occurred to the angry German man to call the cops and I am to this day friendly with his children. If that happened in America today, we were in Switzerland, one of us would have been charged with juvenile delinquency. Maybe my friend, now a senior software engineer, who was the oldest of the group. Maybe me, who has the darkest skin. I am not saying we need eight-year olds laying siege to their village to experience life. But almost every male friend of mine has a story in this genre. It might have been fights. It might have been practical jokes. It might have been my high school acquaintance and Eagle Scout who was expelled for guessing the system-wide one-factor Fremont Union High School District password (Zhongguo). His grand crime: running the printers at our rival high school on loop.
- apexalpha 6y ago
  Hah! This brings me back to my teen years when we would bike over the border (NL->BE) to get fireworks in Liège. Those people sold everything that was illegal in the Netherlands and sold it all to us kids, too. We would cut them open and use the powders to create larger and strung together bombs to blow up everything we could find from post boxes to old TVs to some cabinets we found on the streets. Some off duty fireman found us and forced us to tell him were we lived. I can still feel his hand pinching on my ear as he dragged me back home to my parents.
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    Biking from The Netherlands to Liège is quite some distance, regardless whether its from Eijsden or Maastricht. Its possible fireworks are going to be illegal this December (normally, you're allowed to fire them around New Year's Eve). Why, too much weight on health care sector already due to COVID-19. Up till age 12 or so, parents are legally responsible for their children. So if you're 11 and use a catapult to destroy gnomes in a garden, your parents are liable. I'm concerned about my children for a different reason. We're both nerds. We got nothing with fireworks and all that. I'm worried my children will be outcasts and get bullied, just like we both were. Additionally, for our boy I am worried about staying on the right path. Statistics show men are more likely to commit crime than women. Furthermore, women achieve better education than men, nowadays. To put it bluntly: I don't want my son to become alt-right white trash. I believe all of these concerns being normal for parents, and of all time. Being concerned or worried about your children is normal, as long as its reasonable. Its of all ages, except that women achieve better education than men; that is actually a relatively recent change.
himinlomax 6y ago
> I welcome this new world And you'd be wrong, because it's extremely hypocritical. I too grew up a nerd. I got very in shape in my 40s, and the amount of respect I got after less than a year of diligent weight lifting was incredible -- and that was from people who would praise the feminized society, too. > I can't understand a world where it is normal to have a bar fights. I have to say, it has to be a very American thing. I remember two American guys telling me they were surprised to never see a bar fight in Paris, and I was shocked to hear such a thing existed. I thought it was a Western movie trope, 19th century frontier thing. But apparently not.
- em-bee 6y ago
  i don't want to live in a world where the respect i get depend on my body shape
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
    And that's not at all what OP said. Or, if you're actually complaining about people getting any respect at all for the work they put into their physical appearance?
    - em-bee 6y ago
      depends on where it's coming from. if my friends compliment me for the hard work i did as they notice the improvement, then that's fine. but a random stranger has no business judging my appearance, regardless if it's positive or negative.
      - DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
        Well, you're not entitled to any respect whatsoever. If someone is going to respect certain things that don't apply to you, it's you who has no business complaining about that. Where does the comment you responded to even talk about random strangers? > and the amount of respect I got after less than a year of diligent weight lifting was incredible Sounds to me like this is mostly about friends or acquaintances. All you're doing here is trying to invalidate something someone else did that they feel somewhat proud about.
distant_hat 6y ago
As someone who grew up similar to you, I now realize the advantages of aggression. A few friends of mine took up coaching in boxing or MMA and the difference in confidence and dealing with completely unrelated situtations was visible. They were less afraid to be confrontational and more likely to get their way at work and other places. They got more dates and a lot more sex. Women and people in general will demonize some kinds of aggression but reward people who engage in it.
- perakojotgenije 6y ago
  It seems that my comment was misinterpreted as if I grew up never doing any sport or social things. On the contrary, I was doing sports from the early age, first table-tennis, then throughout my primary and high school basketball and then I've discovered martial arts in my 30's and trained karate, judo and jujutsu. I just commented that we shouldn't normalize things like bar fights (just like OP said).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
taylodl 6y ago
That's just it - "bar fights" weren't a knock-down, beat the crap out of one another event. It was more of a scuffle. No one seriously hurt. Bouncers would keep things from getting out of hand. And only certain bars would tolerate any kind of fighting.

pythonlion 6y ago

as someone with 3 sisters I also welcome reality. Just enroll your kids to judo or some other sports if competition is what they need. only point I find sane is that we need more male teachers but its more like a market problem assuming man can do this job well in case of high demand (good salary)

DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
> but its more like a market problem assuming man can do this job well in case of high demand (good salary) Now try replacing male teachers with female CEOs in that sentence and see what happens.
em-bee 6y ago
it's not only a market problem. as one schools director told me in new zealand for example parents don't trust male teachers, and it's practically impossible to get a job there working with children as a man.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  Reading these comments, would you allow any of these men to be around you kids?
  - marakv2 6y ago
    Male teacher here. 37 ex amateur MMA fighter(5 fights), life time of martial arts training. I am one of the most sought out teachers for our kindergarten classes, I'm energetic, friendly and have excellent control of the classroom resulting in students being more interested in attending. I have an excellent record with the quiet and shy students, to the point where other teachers in our other schools are told to speak to me for advice. My history has very little bearing as a teacher, as I do not condone any forms of violence in the classroom. Creating blanket statements without knowledge, results in irrational fears.
- sjg007 6y ago
  This is totally irrational.

MattGaiser 6y ago

Agreed. Why exactly would we tolerate damaging and costly violence?

blackflame7000 6y ago
What if there were a cost on society associated with things not being instantly settled that manifests as growing and deep-seeded hatred of each other in society?
teataster 6y ago
Because human nature is something to be tolerated. But yeah, better have kids playing judo than bar fighting.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  Bullying? murder, domestic violence, child abuse, rape, racism? All these things can be attributed one way or another to human nature because they exist in all human cultures. Should we tolerate them?
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  Except swap their wife for the random guy in a bar and we call it domestic violence and punish it with jail time.
  - xd 6y ago
    DV is generally a pattern of varied abusive behaviour ranging from physical, physiological, controlling, coercion etc.. not a one off bar fight.
tpoacher 6y ago
Has it occurred to you that the removal of physical violence does not come for free? It is simply replaced with other types of violence (i.e. psychological / emotional / cyberbullying violence). While I do not condone of physical violence, I would much rather a guy having beef with me to angrily yell at me in person, rather than make up stuff and invite a twitter mob to get me fired.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> I can't understand a world where it is normal to have a bar fights OP was giving an extreme example. When I was young, I made catapults with friends. One weekend we took our five-foot trebuchets and bombarded a neighbour’s house. I don’t recall the exact damage we did. It wasn’t major, no broken windows. But it wasn’t insignificant either: garden shredded, porcelain gnomes destroyed. We had the riot act read to us. In exchange for not telling our parents we agreed to work their garden for the summer. It never occurred to the angry German man to call the cops and I am to this day friendly with his children. If that happened in America today, we were in Switzerland, one of us would have been charged with juvenile delinquency. Maybe my friend, now a senior software engineer, who was the oldest of the group. Maybe me, who has the darkest skin. I am not saying we need eight-year olds laying siege to their village to experience life. But almost every male friend of mine has a story in this genre. It might have been fights. It might have been practical jokes. It might have been my high school acquaintance and Eagle Scout who was expelled for guessing the system-wide one-factor Fremont Union High School District password (Zhongguo). His grand crime: running the printers at our rival high school on loop.

apexalpha 6y ago
Hah! This brings me back to my teen years when we would bike over the border (NL->BE) to get fireworks in Liège. Those people sold everything that was illegal in the Netherlands and sold it all to us kids, too. We would cut them open and use the powders to create larger and strung together bombs to blow up everything we could find from post boxes to old TVs to some cabinets we found on the streets. Some off duty fireman found us and forced us to tell him were we lived. I can still feel his hand pinching on my ear as he dragged me back home to my parents.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  Biking from The Netherlands to Liège is quite some distance, regardless whether its from Eijsden or Maastricht. Its possible fireworks are going to be illegal this December (normally, you're allowed to fire them around New Year's Eve). Why, too much weight on health care sector already due to COVID-19. Up till age 12 or so, parents are legally responsible for their children. So if you're 11 and use a catapult to destroy gnomes in a garden, your parents are liable. I'm concerned about my children for a different reason. We're both nerds. We got nothing with fireworks and all that. I'm worried my children will be outcasts and get bullied, just like we both were. Additionally, for our boy I am worried about staying on the right path. Statistics show men are more likely to commit crime than women. Furthermore, women achieve better education than men, nowadays. To put it bluntly: I don't want my son to become alt-right white trash. I believe all of these concerns being normal for parents, and of all time. Being concerned or worried about your children is normal, as long as its reasonable. Its of all ages, except that women achieve better education than men; that is actually a relatively recent change.

himinlomax 6y ago

> I welcome this new world And you'd be wrong, because it's extremely hypocritical. I too grew up a nerd. I got very in shape in my 40s, and the amount of respect I got after less than a year of diligent weight lifting was incredible -- and that was from people who would praise the feminized society, too. > I can't understand a world where it is normal to have a bar fights. I have to say, it has to be a very American thing. I remember two American guys telling me they were surprised to never see a bar fight in Paris, and I was shocked to hear such a thing existed. I thought it was a Western movie trope, 19th century frontier thing. But apparently not.

em-bee 6y ago
i don't want to live in a world where the respect i get depend on my body shape
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
  And that's not at all what OP said. Or, if you're actually complaining about people getting any respect at all for the work they put into their physical appearance?
  - em-bee 6y ago
    depends on where it's coming from. if my friends compliment me for the hard work i did as they notice the improvement, then that's fine. but a random stranger has no business judging my appearance, regardless if it's positive or negative.
    - DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
      Well, you're not entitled to any respect whatsoever. If someone is going to respect certain things that don't apply to you, it's you who has no business complaining about that. Where does the comment you responded to even talk about random strangers? > and the amount of respect I got after less than a year of diligent weight lifting was incredible Sounds to me like this is mostly about friends or acquaintances. All you're doing here is trying to invalidate something someone else did that they feel somewhat proud about.

distant_hat 6y ago

As someone who grew up similar to you, I now realize the advantages of aggression. A few friends of mine took up coaching in boxing or MMA and the difference in confidence and dealing with completely unrelated situtations was visible. They were less afraid to be confrontational and more likely to get their way at work and other places. They got more dates and a lot more sex. Women and people in general will demonize some kinds of aggression but reward people who engage in it.

perakojotgenije 6y ago
It seems that my comment was misinterpreted as if I grew up never doing any sport or social things. On the contrary, I was doing sports from the early age, first table-tennis, then throughout my primary and high school basketball and then I've discovered martial arts in my 30's and trained karate, judo and jujutsu. I just commented that we shouldn't normalize things like bar fights (just like OP said).
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

taylodl 6y ago

That's just it - "bar fights" weren't a knock-down, beat the crap out of one another event. It was more of a scuffle. No one seriously hurt. Bouncers would keep things from getting out of hand. And only certain bars would tolerate any kind of fighting.