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I just don't get it. There are legitimate issues you can bring up about china. Crazy silly propaganda pieces aren't going to cut it. What happened to the ughyur

by disown 6y ago

I just don't get it. There are legitimate issues you can bring up about china. Crazy silly propaganda pieces aren't going to cut it. What happened to the ughyur propaganda nonsense? Did that get aged out of the propaganda cycle? Did the "nazi genocide" turned into "cultural genocide" turned into camps turned into reeducation centers not work out too well for you? Now we are on to the mongols? Can't get John Oliver to do another propaganda piece? Bitter winter is an anti-china propaganda organization created just 2 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CESNUR#Bitter_Winter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CESNUR#Bitter_Winter The funny bit here is that just a few months ago these same propagandists were calling Xi the new genghis khan or was it new xitler? All this propaganda does is make it blatant obvious that western actors are trying to destabilize china. It actual works in china's favor. Edit: And of course the only comment with sources pointing out the obvious propaganda gets flagged.

Judgmentality 6y ago
> There are legitimate issues you can bring up about china. If you don't consider those other things you discredit to be sensible, I am very curious what issues regarding China you do think are legitimate.
- AYBABTME 6y ago
  Grand parent seems to have a stream of comments where they are critical of anti-China propaganda, but from a western perspective. I'm curious exactly what mental model of the world the GP has. I don't agree with the dismissive attitude GP portrays, but in the USA vs. China situation we appear to be stepping in as a planet, I can't help but recognize that there's something going on, some war for the minds via public influence campgains, and it's probably not being done by only one side of the equation. In this way, I'm a bit disappointed that GP is being down-voted to oblivion: how can we see dissenting voices if they're being hidden because they come across as shocking/incendiary? We say that HN isn't a platform to discuss politics, and yet "Xi Jinping is fighting a new enemy – Genghis Khan" is clearly a political piece. Of course all this would be easier to discuss if GP wasn't attacking everyone. Anyways, food for thoughts.
- disown 6y ago
  Fake easily debunked propaganda doesn't work. Because people can easily find out it is fake. You can't claim china is exterminating muslims when the muslim population has skyrocketed in china. The ugyhur nonsense is exactly the same nonsense we had in the mid 2000s about the falun gong. The same exact debunked nonsense. I know because I believed it. > I am very curious what issues regarding China you do think are legitimate. You know REAL issues? Trade deficit? Environmental protection? Peacefully reintegrating taiwan into china? North Korea? Not bullshit about "stolen organs", this nonsense about genghis khan, etc. The only thing missing is this go around are the fucking dams. In the mid 2000s, propagandists, similar to the ones working at bitterwinter, were telling everyone that china's dams were about to collapse. Something about poor construction, corruption, incompetence. The whole of china was going to be flooded and china was going to collapse. Boy was I convinced and boy was I duped. When congress is united on something, you know it's wrong. When john oliver does a piece on it, you know there is something not right about it. That the first casualty of war is the truth and we are in a trade war means almost everything about china is probably a lie. And if you notice that this is just a rerun of what we going 20 years ago, then it all makes sense.
  - Judgmentality 6y ago
    You seem to be in the minority of people who don't believe the Uighur concentration camps are real (you are actually the first person I know who doesn't believe it). What evidence do you have to debunk it? Please provide data and not rhetoric.
arcticbull 6y ago
> What happened to the ughyur propaganda nonsense? So.... you know it's real right? I've been there. Have you?
- disown 6y ago
  What's real? Be specific. But you can't because you people just care of spreading propaganda. > I've been there. Is it you rushan abbas? https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/e9ad4n/i_am_rushan_abbas_uyghur_activist_and_survivor_of/ https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/e9ad4n/i_am_rushan_ab... > Have you? Of course not. You crazy? The chinese ( or Xi personally ) is putting everyone in death camps. The ughyur nonsense is just the falun gong nonsense rehashed ( the death camps, stolen organs, etc ). I fell for that bullshit hard in the mid 2000s. I'm not falling for that now. There's an old saying a great man reminded us of once - fool me once shame on you, fool me twice... You and your pathetic little band of propagandists can downvote me all you want but that isn't going to change the truth. And I've been on this ride before, so it isn't much of a surprise.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    I can assure you I have no idea who "rushan abbas" is. Pray tell, what changed your mind about the Falun Gong?
    - disown 6y ago
      > I can assure you I have no idea who "rushan abbas" is. And I can assure you that you are lying. Why lie about it? > Pray tell, what changed your mind about the Falun Gong? The fact that they are a crazy lunatic cult conjured up by intelligence agencies? What funny is that "china" always steals organs when there is an issue with the west. When Bush had a problem with china, then all of a sudden they are creating death camps and stealing organs. Then nothing for years. Now trump has an issue with china and all of a sudden "death camps" and they are "stealing organs". I'll make a bet with you. Once the trade issue with china is resolved these stories about ugyhurs and "stealing organs" will magically disappear. Edit: > lol, I mean, I'm not exactly going to post a photo of myself holding up the New York Times to placate your wild accusations Wild accusations? My "Is it you rushan abbas?" was an obvious joke. I was just showing you an example of a propagandist that's running wild all over traditional and social media. That you took it this seriously and are still taking it this seriously tells me everything I need to know. lol. > But you said you believed in it then you stopped -- my question is why did you believe it, and follow up, why did you stop? I believed in it because I was young and naive. I stopped because I learned what it was about. I also believed we invaded iraq for "freedom" - once again young and naive. Now I know it was all bullshit. > Why would that reflect reality? You don't think the US media caters to political expediencies? Remember how Saddam had weapons of mass destruction? That's my point. The media lies. It's all propaganda. What do you think bitterwinter is?
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
"With sources"? You gave a source for what Bitter Winter is. That doesn't give reason to think that anything else you have said is true. You might, for instance, give a source for your claim that the Uighur issue is "propaganda nonsense".

by disown 6y ago

Judgmentality 6y ago

> There are legitimate issues you can bring up about china. If you don't consider those other things you discredit to be sensible, I am very curious what issues regarding China you do think are legitimate.

AYBABTME 6y ago
Grand parent seems to have a stream of comments where they are critical of anti-China propaganda, but from a western perspective. I'm curious exactly what mental model of the world the GP has. I don't agree with the dismissive attitude GP portrays, but in the USA vs. China situation we appear to be stepping in as a planet, I can't help but recognize that there's something going on, some war for the minds via public influence campgains, and it's probably not being done by only one side of the equation. In this way, I'm a bit disappointed that GP is being down-voted to oblivion: how can we see dissenting voices if they're being hidden because they come across as shocking/incendiary? We say that HN isn't a platform to discuss politics, and yet "Xi Jinping is fighting a new enemy – Genghis Khan" is clearly a political piece. Of course all this would be easier to discuss if GP wasn't attacking everyone. Anyways, food for thoughts.
disown 6y ago
Fake easily debunked propaganda doesn't work. Because people can easily find out it is fake. You can't claim china is exterminating muslims when the muslim population has skyrocketed in china. The ugyhur nonsense is exactly the same nonsense we had in the mid 2000s about the falun gong. The same exact debunked nonsense. I know because I believed it. > I am very curious what issues regarding China you do think are legitimate. You know REAL issues? Trade deficit? Environmental protection? Peacefully reintegrating taiwan into china? North Korea? Not bullshit about "stolen organs", this nonsense about genghis khan, etc. The only thing missing is this go around are the fucking dams. In the mid 2000s, propagandists, similar to the ones working at bitterwinter, were telling everyone that china's dams were about to collapse. Something about poor construction, corruption, incompetence. The whole of china was going to be flooded and china was going to collapse. Boy was I convinced and boy was I duped. When congress is united on something, you know it's wrong. When john oliver does a piece on it, you know there is something not right about it. That the first casualty of war is the truth and we are in a trade war means almost everything about china is probably a lie. And if you notice that this is just a rerun of what we going 20 years ago, then it all makes sense.
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  You seem to be in the minority of people who don't believe the Uighur concentration camps are real (you are actually the first person I know who doesn't believe it). What evidence do you have to debunk it? Please provide data and not rhetoric.

arcticbull 6y ago

> What happened to the ughyur propaganda nonsense? So.... you know it's real right? I've been there. Have you?

disown 6y ago
What's real? Be specific. But you can't because you people just care of spreading propaganda. > I've been there. Is it you rushan abbas? https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/e9ad4n/i_am_rushan_abbas_uyghur_activist_and_survivor_of/ https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/e9ad4n/i_am_rushan_ab... > Have you? Of course not. You crazy? The chinese ( or Xi personally ) is putting everyone in death camps. The ughyur nonsense is just the falun gong nonsense rehashed ( the death camps, stolen organs, etc ). I fell for that bullshit hard in the mid 2000s. I'm not falling for that now. There's an old saying a great man reminded us of once - fool me once shame on you, fool me twice... You and your pathetic little band of propagandists can downvote me all you want but that isn't going to change the truth. And I've been on this ride before, so it isn't much of a surprise.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  I can assure you I have no idea who "rushan abbas" is. Pray tell, what changed your mind about the Falun Gong?
  - disown 6y ago
    > I can assure you I have no idea who "rushan abbas" is. And I can assure you that you are lying. Why lie about it? > Pray tell, what changed your mind about the Falun Gong? The fact that they are a crazy lunatic cult conjured up by intelligence agencies? What funny is that "china" always steals organs when there is an issue with the west. When Bush had a problem with china, then all of a sudden they are creating death camps and stealing organs. Then nothing for years. Now trump has an issue with china and all of a sudden "death camps" and they are "stealing organs". I'll make a bet with you. Once the trade issue with china is resolved these stories about ugyhurs and "stealing organs" will magically disappear. Edit: > lol, I mean, I'm not exactly going to post a photo of myself holding up the New York Times to placate your wild accusations Wild accusations? My "Is it you rushan abbas?" was an obvious joke. I was just showing you an example of a propagandist that's running wild all over traditional and social media. That you took it this seriously and are still taking it this seriously tells me everything I need to know. lol. > But you said you believed in it then you stopped -- my question is why did you believe it, and follow up, why did you stop? I believed in it because I was young and naive. I stopped because I learned what it was about. I also believed we invaded iraq for "freedom" - once again young and naive. Now I know it was all bullshit. > Why would that reflect reality? You don't think the US media caters to political expediencies? Remember how Saddam had weapons of mass destruction? That's my point. The media lies. It's all propaganda. What do you think bitterwinter is?

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

"With sources"? You gave a source for what Bitter Winter is. That doesn't give reason to think that anything else you have said is true. You might, for instance, give a source for your claim that the Uighur issue is "propaganda nonsense".