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What is up with constitutions in that part of the world? Does anyone know why articles for maintaining state unity, conflicting with and undermining all rights

What is up with constitutions in that part of the world? Does anyone know why articles for maintaining state unity, conflicting with and undermining all rights in those constitutions, appear do commonly? At one point I thought China had a rational history of dis-unity to support its constitution, but neighboring countries are the same. Is it the derivative of stage I communism that requires it and it just stays there as the country integrates a market based economy?

arcticbull 6y ago
A constitution anywhere is just a piece of paper. What matters is not what's written, but rather that folks in power choose to abide by it. Xi is a totalitarian, and he has his plans, and no piece of paper or law will stand in his way. Extremist states have ways of retrospectively crafting laws that justify what they've done.
- vmception 6y ago
  > Extremist states have ways of retrospectively crafting laws that justify what they've done. That's the same anywhere. When you are playing the "rule of law" game, you look at the tools available - laws written - and rationalize how what you want to do conforms to it.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Yep, agreed completely.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  > What matters is not what's written, but rather that folks in power choose to abide by it. And whether the other folks can make them abide by it. Take Trump, for example. He seems to be an authoritarian at heart, and has several times tried to be. The difference is that the court system didn't roll over for him, and society (and the power structure) followed the courts rather than Trump. So even if Trump wanted to be a dictator for life, the levers of power existed independent of him, and were enough for his opposition to prevent him from doing so. In China, the levers of power are all held by the Communist Party. And the Communist Party will do whatever Xi says. There are no non-Xi-controlled levers of power for any opposition to use to block what he wants. (I suppose there may be limits to how far the Communist Party will follow him. And there may be limits on how far the people can be pushed before they will revolt against the Communist Party. But those are the only limits on his power. No independent judiciary, no opposition party that controls one house of the legislature.)
  - vmception 6y ago
    Good point about China, when you look at the Rules for Rulers, Xi is masterfully keeping all the key holders to the kingdom satisfied, and there is very little possible to undermine that.

arcticbull 6y ago

A constitution anywhere is just a piece of paper. What matters is not what's written, but rather that folks in power choose to abide by it. Xi is a totalitarian, and he has his plans, and no piece of paper or law will stand in his way. Extremist states have ways of retrospectively crafting laws that justify what they've done.

vmception 6y ago
> Extremist states have ways of retrospectively crafting laws that justify what they've done. That's the same anywhere. When you are playing the "rule of law" game, you look at the tools available - laws written - and rationalize how what you want to do conforms to it.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Yep, agreed completely.
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
> What matters is not what's written, but rather that folks in power choose to abide by it. And whether the other folks can make them abide by it. Take Trump, for example. He seems to be an authoritarian at heart, and has several times tried to be. The difference is that the court system didn't roll over for him, and society (and the power structure) followed the courts rather than Trump. So even if Trump wanted to be a dictator for life, the levers of power existed independent of him, and were enough for his opposition to prevent him from doing so. In China, the levers of power are all held by the Communist Party. And the Communist Party will do whatever Xi says. There are no non-Xi-controlled levers of power for any opposition to use to block what he wants. (I suppose there may be limits to how far the Communist Party will follow him. And there may be limits on how far the people can be pushed before they will revolt against the Communist Party. But those are the only limits on his power. No independent judiciary, no opposition party that controls one house of the legislature.)
- vmception 6y ago
  Good point about China, when you look at the Rules for Rulers, Xi is masterfully keeping all the key holders to the kingdom satisfied, and there is very little possible to undermine that.