6 ms·

Intriguing maps that reveal alternate histories

71 points by chwolfe 6y ago

the_only_law 6y ago
Shame the images are too low resolution to read well.
- Someone 6y ago
  Slightly better: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sobel_North_America.gif https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sobel_North_America.... (457 × 429 pixels) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Man_In_The_High_Castle_map.PNG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Man_In_The_High_Cast... (Max 1,428 × 638 pixels)
tomlockwood 6y ago
I was going to riot if Long Chile was not included.
teh_infallible 6y ago
I thought this was going to be about Tartaria :)
dmichulke 6y ago
There are games devoted to this, best known is probably Europa Universalis IV [1] and the corresponding reddit [2] often shows maps in alternate histories, aptly named "map porn". There are challenging achievements in the game, such as: - Become the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire as Spain. - As Byzantium, restore the old borders (i.e., stop and reverse the Ottoman conquest in the 15th century) - As France, own Vienna, Berlin and Moscow. You can picture the maps that this produces. Also, it's a great way to learn about history. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_Universalis_IV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_Universalis_IV [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/ https://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- anoncake 6y ago
  > Become the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire as Spain. This one actually happened under Charles V (Charles I of Spain).
  - bregma 6y ago
    To be fair, he was Flemish so he was already half way there. He was also a Hapsburg, so he was already half way there on both sides of the family since they were both the same side to start with.
  - apricotpancake 6y ago
    Isn’t this disputed by European history scholars? You should be less sure of yourself before you check the facts: https://youtu.be/QB7ACr7pUuE https://youtu.be/QB7ACr7pUuE
- BerislavLopac 6y ago
  Due to my son's love of Stellaris I became quite acquainted with Paradox's games, to the extent of attending three PDXCons so far. My absolute favourite is Crusader Kings (both II and the recent III), because they are much more personal -- you're leading a dynasty by playing their current leading lord/lady, and their descendants, rather than a vague nation state.
lifeisstillgood 6y ago
So there is a fairly big and active community about Alternatice histories. AlternateHistory.com is by far the biggest and there are active youtube channels One of the biggest you tubers recently got outed following a white supremiscit rant - and that is one of the bigger "smells" around the community - histories of "what if the Nazis won and what if the South won US civil war" can spring not from curiosity but yearning. I personally enjoy WhatIfAltHist as a channel, partly because he is fairly front and centre about his own political (rather centrist and boring) (small p) views. The big takeaway I have found is that I learn something interesting about our real timeline history and about our real geopolitics - how England supported the creation of Portugal through the middle ages, or the extent Tamerlane changed Europe by killing everyone. And just how contingent the world is. So yeah it's a fascinating area, tread carefully, I have only dipped my toes in, but it can be very eye opening.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  Alternate history fosters systemic thinking to understand outcomes and consider how they could have been altered to create other realities. In doing so, it teaches amateur history, sociology, economics, and other subjects through the reverse-engineering of historical events, to different extents of rigor. Along the way you definitely spot interesting overlooked patterns, such as the long-lived ancient Anglo-Portuguese alliance. It's also the basis for a lot of creative works. DeviantArt not only plays host to a ton of alternate historical maps, but flags and other graphics.
- arethuza 6y ago
  "just how contingent the world is" I must admit I have a morbid fascination with alternate histories of the Cold War and all the terrible things that almost happened in that period but for the good judgement of people on both sides of that conflict. We were so close on so many occasions to utter oblivion... [NB I'm in the UK - which would, like most of Europe, come out rather badly had the nukes started flying].
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    You might appreciate the seminal amateur work on that subject, 1983: Doomsday https://althistory.fandom.com/wiki/1983:_Doomsday https://althistory.fandom.com/wiki/1983:_Doomsday It's one of the most massive collaborative world-building projects of its kind.
feralimal 6y ago
On maps, I find it surprising and hilarious that the UN has a flat earth map on its logo! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_Nations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_Nations
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  Could you explain why you find it so funny? Are you proposing their flag should be spherical instead of a flat sheet?
  - OJFord 6y ago
    I think GP means that the projection used appears to be an Azimuthal equidistant projection [0] - which doesn't really make it a 'flat Earth map' as such, but if the Earth were flat I suppose it would be the only logical (non) projection. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuthal_equidistant_projection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuthal_equidistant_projecti...
    - arethuza 6y ago
      Is there a schism in the Flat Earth community about which pole is a point and which is a circle?
      - OJFord 6y ago
        Well presumably there's no accepted concept of a 'pole'. (If there were, yes I'm sure the Antarctican Flat Earth community is adamant it is the inverse of the above link..!) But, generalising, 'where is the centre', I don't know. Back in the day they presumably didn't claim to know, because obviously nobody had reached the edge, so there was just known area, and unknown beyond it, in every direction.
        arethuza 6y ago
        The Charlie Stross story "Missile Gap" has a literal flat Earth and just that "and unknown beyond it, in every direction"... The 'Earth' there definitely doesn't have poles.
twic 6y ago
If you like alternate maps, perhaps you will enjoy alternate weather reports: https://hypotheticalhurricanes.fandom.com/wiki/Typhoon_Hagupit_(2020) https://hypotheticalhurricanes.fandom.com/wiki/Typhoon_Hagup...

71 points by chwolfe 6y ago

the_only_law 6y ago

Shame the images are too low resolution to read well.

Someone 6y ago
Slightly better: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sobel_North_America.gif https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sobel_North_America.... (457 × 429 pixels) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Man_In_The_High_Castle_map.PNG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Man_In_The_High_Cast... (Max 1,428 × 638 pixels)

tomlockwood 6y ago

I was going to riot if Long Chile was not included.

teh_infallible 6y ago

I thought this was going to be about Tartaria :)

dmichulke 6y ago

There are games devoted to this, best known is probably Europa Universalis IV [1] and the corresponding reddit [2] often shows maps in alternate histories, aptly named "map porn". There are challenging achievements in the game, such as: - Become the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire as Spain. - As Byzantium, restore the old borders (i.e., stop and reverse the Ottoman conquest in the 15th century) - As France, own Vienna, Berlin and Moscow. You can picture the maps that this produces. Also, it's a great way to learn about history. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_Universalis_IV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_Universalis_IV [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/ https://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
anoncake 6y ago
> Become the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire as Spain. This one actually happened under Charles V (Charles I of Spain).
- bregma 6y ago
  To be fair, he was Flemish so he was already half way there. He was also a Hapsburg, so he was already half way there on both sides of the family since they were both the same side to start with.
- apricotpancake 6y ago
  Isn’t this disputed by European history scholars? You should be less sure of yourself before you check the facts: https://youtu.be/QB7ACr7pUuE https://youtu.be/QB7ACr7pUuE
BerislavLopac 6y ago
Due to my son's love of Stellaris I became quite acquainted with Paradox's games, to the extent of attending three PDXCons so far. My absolute favourite is Crusader Kings (both II and the recent III), because they are much more personal -- you're leading a dynasty by playing their current leading lord/lady, and their descendants, rather than a vague nation state.

lifeisstillgood 6y ago

So there is a fairly big and active community about Alternatice histories. AlternateHistory.com is by far the biggest and there are active youtube channels One of the biggest you tubers recently got outed following a white supremiscit rant - and that is one of the bigger "smells" around the community - histories of "what if the Nazis won and what if the South won US civil war" can spring not from curiosity but yearning. I personally enjoy WhatIfAltHist as a channel, partly because he is fairly front and centre about his own political (rather centrist and boring) (small p) views. The big takeaway I have found is that I learn something interesting about our real timeline history and about our real geopolitics - how England supported the creation of Portugal through the middle ages, or the extent Tamerlane changed Europe by killing everyone. And just how contingent the world is. So yeah it's a fascinating area, tread carefully, I have only dipped my toes in, but it can be very eye opening.

Apocryphon 6y ago
Alternate history fosters systemic thinking to understand outcomes and consider how they could have been altered to create other realities. In doing so, it teaches amateur history, sociology, economics, and other subjects through the reverse-engineering of historical events, to different extents of rigor. Along the way you definitely spot interesting overlooked patterns, such as the long-lived ancient Anglo-Portuguese alliance. It's also the basis for a lot of creative works. DeviantArt not only plays host to a ton of alternate historical maps, but flags and other graphics.
arethuza 6y ago
"just how contingent the world is" I must admit I have a morbid fascination with alternate histories of the Cold War and all the terrible things that almost happened in that period but for the good judgement of people on both sides of that conflict. We were so close on so many occasions to utter oblivion... [NB I'm in the UK - which would, like most of Europe, come out rather badly had the nukes started flying].
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  You might appreciate the seminal amateur work on that subject, 1983: Doomsday https://althistory.fandom.com/wiki/1983:_Doomsday https://althistory.fandom.com/wiki/1983:_Doomsday It's one of the most massive collaborative world-building projects of its kind.

feralimal 6y ago

On maps, I find it surprising and hilarious that the UN has a flat earth map on its logo! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_Nations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_Nations

Cthulhu_ 6y ago
Could you explain why you find it so funny? Are you proposing their flag should be spherical instead of a flat sheet?
- OJFord 6y ago
  I think GP means that the projection used appears to be an Azimuthal equidistant projection [0] - which doesn't really make it a 'flat Earth map' as such, but if the Earth were flat I suppose it would be the only logical (non) projection. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuthal_equidistant_projection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuthal_equidistant_projecti...
  - arethuza 6y ago
    Is there a schism in the Flat Earth community about which pole is a point and which is a circle?
    - OJFord 6y ago
      Well presumably there's no accepted concept of a 'pole'. (If there were, yes I'm sure the Antarctican Flat Earth community is adamant it is the inverse of the above link..!) But, generalising, 'where is the centre', I don't know. Back in the day they presumably didn't claim to know, because obviously nobody had reached the edge, so there was just known area, and unknown beyond it, in every direction.
      - arethuza 6y ago
        The Charlie Stross story "Missile Gap" has a literal flat Earth and just that "and unknown beyond it, in every direction"... The 'Earth' there definitely doesn't have poles.

twic 6y ago

If you like alternate maps, perhaps you will enjoy alternate weather reports: https://hypotheticalhurricanes.fandom.com/wiki/Typhoon_Hagupit_(2020) https://hypotheticalhurricanes.fandom.com/wiki/Typhoon_Hagup...