5 ms·

In my opinion the NYT has been the clearest and most unrelenting source of anti-Trumpism in the Trump era, and continues to push hard as Trump is not showing si

In my opinion the NYT has been the clearest and most unrelenting source of anti-Trumpism in the Trump era, and continues to push hard as Trump is not showing signs of letting go. Historically this may play out as NYT devolving into a hopelessly polarized sensationalist pseudo news source, but it could be cemented as a clear stand against despotic inclinations in the Presidency when few others were so determined.

IgorPartola 6y ago
You are confusing anti-Trump bias with telling the truth. Trump being a pathological liar means that any given story about him will sound bad. Example: “Trump said today he is still under audit and unable to release his tax returns. Of course there is zero reason why being under audit would prevent someone from releasing their tax returns and the most likely explanation is that there is evidence of tax fraud that can be uncovered if his tax returns became public.” This is what happens why you are a public figure who lies: it makes you look bad. The solution isn’t to blame the reporters but to stop lying.
- tathougies 6y ago
  Okay, sure, Trump misrepresented that maybe -- although his tax returns are typical of someone with lots of depreciable real estate, and don't have much evidence of fraud. But let's talk about other so-called trump 'lies'. What about the continued doubts by the NYT that there would soon be news about a working coronavirus vaccine at the end of October, early November? What about the Steele Dossier that is now known to have been paid for by Russia (which Trump said at the beginning, but was claimed to be a lie)? What about the forced firing via threat of withholding aide of the Ukrainian prosecutor by Joe Biden, who denied being involved with his son's business dealings in the Ukraine? We were told that was lies, but there is indisputable DKIM evidence that an e-mail from Burisima to Hunter Biden thanked him for meeting his father while he was in office (https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim). Are those lies too? Sure Trump lies, like any other politician. But sometimes he tells the truth, and the truth is so ludicrous, that it seems like lies, but when it finally comes out that it was true, we all sit and say to ourselves... maybe we should believe the guy. But I mean... continue on with the denial, you'll just turn more formerly anti-Trump people into pro-Trumpers.
  - IgorPartola 6y ago
    Do I really need to point you towards the Trump lie tracker? I am only exaggerating a little when I say that if he says ten words, he emits 11 lies.
    - tathougies 6y ago
      Nice dodge of the question! I cited specific examples of ludicrous things he's said that have come true, and you cite small lies he's told. I can do the same for any politician you name, that doesn't mean they never say something worth listening to. Like I said though... Keep going. People like you have converted me from a never Trumper to a Trump supporter. And people like you have converted my aunt, a former Obama-supporting liberal, into avid pro-Trumpers. Honestly, from my perspective, I say keep going on and do whatever it is you do. It'll just make more people like me.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > You've converted me from a never Trumper to a Trump supporter. You've been echoing Trump talking points and explicitly defending Trump here for months. That's the kind of dishonest rhetorical trick that works better when the history isn't readily visible.
        tathougies 6y ago
        I did not vote for Trump in 2016. Yes, for the past few months I have become a Trump supporter, ever since the fake impeachment attempt, I have supported the president. Supporting Trump for a few months after not supporting him for years is hardly some great evidence that I'm lying. EDIT: Oh look downvotes at me explaining my very plausible change of heart on trump. Apparently HN knows my ballot better than me!
        zaroth 6y ago
        I understand exactly where you’re coming from. The way that the MSM has portrayed and reported on Trump I think is a huge source of his ongoing support. For a more recent example, claiming Pfizer isn’t part of Operation Warp Speed, or that holding the samples on ice until the day after the election wasn’t partisan is bald faced denial. Gore spends 30 days pursuing recounts in 2000 before conceding but Trump is supposedly a dangerous dictator for not conceding. How about this one — Flynn allegedly violates the Logan act by talking about sanctions with the Russian ambassador, but Biden is talking policy with world leaders a day after the election is called and its AOK. Now, to be clear, it’s exactly what Biden should be doing and is clearly not illegal, but it’s the double standard which drives a lot of people to support Trump.

IgorPartola 6y ago

You are confusing anti-Trump bias with telling the truth. Trump being a pathological liar means that any given story about him will sound bad. Example: “Trump said today he is still under audit and unable to release his tax returns. Of course there is zero reason why being under audit would prevent someone from releasing their tax returns and the most likely explanation is that there is evidence of tax fraud that can be uncovered if his tax returns became public.” This is what happens why you are a public figure who lies: it makes you look bad. The solution isn’t to blame the reporters but to stop lying.

tathougies 6y ago
Okay, sure, Trump misrepresented that maybe -- although his tax returns are typical of someone with lots of depreciable real estate, and don't have much evidence of fraud. But let's talk about other so-called trump 'lies'. What about the continued doubts by the NYT that there would soon be news about a working coronavirus vaccine at the end of October, early November? What about the Steele Dossier that is now known to have been paid for by Russia (which Trump said at the beginning, but was claimed to be a lie)? What about the forced firing via threat of withholding aide of the Ukrainian prosecutor by Joe Biden, who denied being involved with his son's business dealings in the Ukraine? We were told that was lies, but there is indisputable DKIM evidence that an e-mail from Burisima to Hunter Biden thanked him for meeting his father while he was in office (https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim). Are those lies too? Sure Trump lies, like any other politician. But sometimes he tells the truth, and the truth is so ludicrous, that it seems like lies, but when it finally comes out that it was true, we all sit and say to ourselves... maybe we should believe the guy. But I mean... continue on with the denial, you'll just turn more formerly anti-Trump people into pro-Trumpers.
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  Do I really need to point you towards the Trump lie tracker? I am only exaggerating a little when I say that if he says ten words, he emits 11 lies.
  - tathougies 6y ago
    Nice dodge of the question! I cited specific examples of ludicrous things he's said that have come true, and you cite small lies he's told. I can do the same for any politician you name, that doesn't mean they never say something worth listening to. Like I said though... Keep going. People like you have converted me from a never Trumper to a Trump supporter. And people like you have converted my aunt, a former Obama-supporting liberal, into avid pro-Trumpers. Honestly, from my perspective, I say keep going on and do whatever it is you do. It'll just make more people like me.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > You've converted me from a never Trumper to a Trump supporter. You've been echoing Trump talking points and explicitly defending Trump here for months. That's the kind of dishonest rhetorical trick that works better when the history isn't readily visible.
      - tathougies 6y ago
        I did not vote for Trump in 2016. Yes, for the past few months I have become a Trump supporter, ever since the fake impeachment attempt, I have supported the president. Supporting Trump for a few months after not supporting him for years is hardly some great evidence that I'm lying. EDIT: Oh look downvotes at me explaining my very plausible change of heart on trump. Apparently HN knows my ballot better than me!
        zaroth 6y ago
        I understand exactly where you’re coming from. The way that the MSM has portrayed and reported on Trump I think is a huge source of his ongoing support. For a more recent example, claiming Pfizer isn’t part of Operation Warp Speed, or that holding the samples on ice until the day after the election wasn’t partisan is bald faced denial. Gore spends 30 days pursuing recounts in 2000 before conceding but Trump is supposedly a dangerous dictator for not conceding. How about this one — Flynn allegedly violates the Logan act by talking about sanctions with the Russian ambassador, but Biden is talking policy with world leaders a day after the election is called and its AOK. Now, to be clear, it’s exactly what Biden should be doing and is clearly not illegal, but it’s the double standard which drives a lot of people to support Trump.