5 ms·

This could probably be merged with the existing discussion about the M1 chip, to not cause over-proliferation of threads. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=

This could probably be merged with the existing discussion about the M1 chip, to not cause over-proliferation of threads. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25049079 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25049079

modeless 6y ago
Personally I think M1's performance is big enough news to deserve a thread devoted to more hard data. Intel has fallen from 1st to 3rd place in single core performance in less than 1 month after holding the crown uncontested for a decade or more. It's a huge shift for the industry.
GeekyBear 6y ago
Replace an Anandtech deep dive containing hard data with a soft and fluffy piece based on a vendor presentation?
- jeffbee 6y ago
  Where's the deep dive with hard data? This AnandTech article is a mashup of press release stenography and fiction.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - GeekyBear 6y ago
    > Where's the deep dive with hard data? >In the overall SPEC2006 chart, the A14 is performing absolutely fantastic, taking the lead in absolute performance only falling short of AMD’s recent Ryzen 5000 series. The fact that Apple is able to achieve this in a total device power consumption of 5W including the SoC, DRAM, and regulators, versus +21W (1185G7) and 49W (5950X) package power figures, without DRAM or regulation, is absolutely mind-blowing. https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive/4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-de...
    - cromwellian 6y ago
      There's not achieving that at 5W when running the benchmark though, more like 18W-20W. I question the obsession with perf/watt. It makes sense if you're running a data center, or if you need to do "light" work. But almost everyone I know with a laptop spends the majority of the time working with it docked to power, and often a monitor. If you're using a laptop for work, and you're not running out of a coffee shop, do you want a Zen3 with 32-64Gb RAM, 8-16 cores and an RDNA2 graphics APU at 50W (Rembrandt), or do you want a a device that will play video for 18 hours? Especially for gaming, Apple's GPU is still years behind AMD and NVidia. They're bragging about 22Gp/s fillrate when latest mobile discrete GPUs do 5-10x that. Certainly, they have achieved a lot and are crushing Intel integrated chips at the low end, but there's a ton of marketing fluff and special case comparisons going on, and I look forward to seeing a real head-to-head matchup, of say a Zen3 based system against a MacBook on a heavy CPU and GPU bound benchmark like a triple-AAA title. Years of synthetic benchmarks that exercise giant CPU caches leaves much to be desired.
      - modeless 6y ago
        Perf/watt matters even if you don't care about power consumption at all, because heat dissipation is usually the limiting factor for sustained performance. Higher perf/watt means higher perf for any given amount of cooling.
        cromwellian 6y ago
        Sure, but people with high perf laptops have high-perf cooling solutions. I'm an engineer/developer and a high end gamer. I have an Alienware laptop (in addition to a Macbook Pro), with an RTX 2070 in it. It never overheats. I take it traveling with me. The M1 has a fillrate 10x slower, and I highly doubt it's competitive on Compute Shader performance either. Even if my RTX laptop were thermally down clocked, it's still got plenty of headroom over the M1 GPU wise. The only time I worry about heat is if I have to have the laptop in my lap. On top of all this, AMD's 6nm Rembrandt coming out next year is likely to have a model in the 20W range, which is on par with the M1's "performance" mode, but with much greater GPU performance. I think the epitaph being written for x86 is a little premature, maybe for Intel, but AMD just delivered 20% IPC improvement, and a huge gfx architecture improvement, with a scalable chiplet architecture going forward. It would be unwise to count them out.
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    Did you miss that the article has multiple pages?
    - dang 6y ago
      Hmm, that's easy to miss - as easy as HN's multiple pages are. Here are the links: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive/2 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-de... https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive/3 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-de... https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive/4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-de... https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive/5 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-de... Seems that only the last one was written after today's announcement though...
      - trashcan 6y ago
        Have you considered adding a page selector at the top of comments when there are multiple pages as a feature of the site? Then you wouldn't have to post this on the articles with enough comments to necessitate this comment. I didn't explain that well, but this doesn't seem like something someone should have to do manually.
        dang 6y ago
        Yes, but I don't want to do anything to make a temporary workaround more comfortable. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24042165 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24042165

modeless 6y ago

Personally I think M1's performance is big enough news to deserve a thread devoted to more hard data. Intel has fallen from 1st to 3rd place in single core performance in less than 1 month after holding the crown uncontested for a decade or more. It's a huge shift for the industry.

GeekyBear 6y ago

Replace an Anandtech deep dive containing hard data with a soft and fluffy piece based on a vendor presentation?

jeffbee 6y ago
Where's the deep dive with hard data? This AnandTech article is a mashup of press release stenography and fiction.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- GeekyBear 6y ago
  > Where's the deep dive with hard data? >In the overall SPEC2006 chart, the A14 is performing absolutely fantastic, taking the lead in absolute performance only falling short of AMD’s recent Ryzen 5000 series. The fact that Apple is able to achieve this in a total device power consumption of 5W including the SoC, DRAM, and regulators, versus +21W (1185G7) and 49W (5950X) package power figures, without DRAM or regulation, is absolutely mind-blowing. https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive/4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-de...
  - cromwellian 6y ago
    There's not achieving that at 5W when running the benchmark though, more like 18W-20W. I question the obsession with perf/watt. It makes sense if you're running a data center, or if you need to do "light" work. But almost everyone I know with a laptop spends the majority of the time working with it docked to power, and often a monitor. If you're using a laptop for work, and you're not running out of a coffee shop, do you want a Zen3 with 32-64Gb RAM, 8-16 cores and an RDNA2 graphics APU at 50W (Rembrandt), or do you want a a device that will play video for 18 hours? Especially for gaming, Apple's GPU is still years behind AMD and NVidia. They're bragging about 22Gp/s fillrate when latest mobile discrete GPUs do 5-10x that. Certainly, they have achieved a lot and are crushing Intel integrated chips at the low end, but there's a ton of marketing fluff and special case comparisons going on, and I look forward to seeing a real head-to-head matchup, of say a Zen3 based system against a MacBook on a heavy CPU and GPU bound benchmark like a triple-AAA title. Years of synthetic benchmarks that exercise giant CPU caches leaves much to be desired.
    - modeless 6y ago
      Perf/watt matters even if you don't care about power consumption at all, because heat dissipation is usually the limiting factor for sustained performance. Higher perf/watt means higher perf for any given amount of cooling.
      - cromwellian 6y ago
        Sure, but people with high perf laptops have high-perf cooling solutions. I'm an engineer/developer and a high end gamer. I have an Alienware laptop (in addition to a Macbook Pro), with an RTX 2070 in it. It never overheats. I take it traveling with me. The M1 has a fillrate 10x slower, and I highly doubt it's competitive on Compute Shader performance either. Even if my RTX laptop were thermally down clocked, it's still got plenty of headroom over the M1 GPU wise. The only time I worry about heat is if I have to have the laptop in my lap. On top of all this, AMD's 6nm Rembrandt coming out next year is likely to have a model in the 20W range, which is on par with the M1's "performance" mode, but with much greater GPU performance. I think the epitaph being written for x86 is a little premature, maybe for Intel, but AMD just delivered 20% IPC improvement, and a huge gfx architecture improvement, with a scalable chiplet architecture going forward. It would be unwise to count them out.
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  Did you miss that the article has multiple pages?
  - dang 6y ago
    Hmm, that's easy to miss - as easy as HN's multiple pages are. Here are the links: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive/2 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-de... https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive/3 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-de... https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive/4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-de... https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive/5 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-de... Seems that only the last one was written after today's announcement though...
    - trashcan 6y ago
      Have you considered adding a page selector at the top of comments when there are multiple pages as a feature of the site? Then you wouldn't have to post this on the articles with enough comments to necessitate this comment. I didn't explain that well, but this doesn't seem like something someone should have to do manually.
      - dang 6y ago
        Yes, but I don't want to do anything to make a temporary workaround more comfortable. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24042165 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24042165