4 ms·

This is not a universally held belief.

giantg2 6y ago
Perhaps those with a contrary belief should review the UMJC, which restricts political statements/actions for military members, even off duty.
- toyg 6y ago
  Sadly those lines are increasingly blurry. Isn’t there an issue right now with the new Secretary of Defence, for example, who technically has not been out of Green Berets long enough to be appointed...?
  - giantg2 6y ago
    With any laws, some of the lines can be blurry. I'm not familiar with that specific situation. I just mention this because there are laws restricting military personnel pretty heavily from many political things, even just criticizing the president. The institution itself is absolutely forbidden from being involved in politics to prevent coups.
- jki275 6y ago
  You're talking about the Hatch Act I presume. The UCMJ doesn't get into that that I'm aware of.
zeveb 6y ago
The earth being round is not universally held, either, but it is true. The military is patriotic, yes, as are its members (it is difficult to imagine how they could be effective were they not), but the military tries very, very hard to be apolitical. Yes, individuals in the military have strong political opinions, just like many other individual Americans. It seems to me that any country at a point where the combination of its flag together with an oath of office, oath of enlistment or commissioning oath is seen as political rather than patriotic cannot be in a good place. It is not too far from that to one where calling for fair and unbiased administration of elections is considered political rather than patriotic. Thank you for assisting in the election, and thank you for your excellent software projects, but in this case I think that you were incorrect.
- morelisp 6y ago
  In many countries other than the US it is uncommon for private citizens in daily life to fly or display flags at all, let alone with some nationalist or political slogan adorning it, except when associated with right-wing activism.
- pjc50 6y ago
  > political rather than patriotic Unfortunately patriotism itself is highly political; the ultimate question of "my country, right or wrong" results in some people noticing that it is in fact wrong in some cases. Do they not teach Clausewitz in the US military? "War is the continuation of politics by other means". Every shot fired in anger is a political act. Not the politics of the person firing it, but those directing the fire. It is possible to try to be non-partisan, but an apolitical military is an oxymoron. The US military is the guarantor of a host of political lines across the world; supporting South Korea or Taiwan or Israel or Germany or Bosnia is a political act. You can't sign up and then disclaim responsibility for the political results of following orders "apolitically". The last people who tried that got shot at Nuremberg.
  - brandmeyer 6y ago
    > Not the politics of the person firing it, but those directing the fire. ... you're almost there... and yet ... > It is possible to try to be non-partisan, but an apolitical military is an oxymoron. > > The US military is the guarantor of a host of political lines across the world; supporting South Korea or Taiwan or Israel or Germany or Bosnia is a political act. At the direction of the duly elected civilian leadership. > You can't sign up and then disclaim responsibility for the political results of following orders "apolitically". The last people who tried that got shot at Nuremberg. This isn't considered a matter of politics. Its a matter of honor and lawfulness.
    - morelisp 6y ago
      Who is elected as citizen leadership is a matter of politics. What is lawful is a matter of politics. Americans need to stop confusing "non-partisan" (or worse "partisan but not along R/D lines") for "apolitical".

Perhaps those with a contrary belief should review the UMJC, which restricts political statements/actions for military members, even off duty.

toyg 6y ago
Sadly those lines are increasingly blurry. Isn’t there an issue right now with the new Secretary of Defence, for example, who technically has not been out of Green Berets long enough to be appointed...?
- giantg2 6y ago
  With any laws, some of the lines can be blurry. I'm not familiar with that specific situation. I just mention this because there are laws restricting military personnel pretty heavily from many political things, even just criticizing the president. The institution itself is absolutely forbidden from being involved in politics to prevent coups.
jki275 6y ago
You're talking about the Hatch Act I presume. The UCMJ doesn't get into that that I'm aware of.

zeveb 6y ago

The earth being round is not universally held, either, but it is true. The military is patriotic, yes, as are its members (it is difficult to imagine how they could be effective were they not), but the military tries very, very hard to be apolitical. Yes, individuals in the military have strong political opinions, just like many other individual Americans. It seems to me that any country at a point where the combination of its flag together with an oath of office, oath of enlistment or commissioning oath is seen as political rather than patriotic cannot be in a good place. It is not too far from that to one where calling for fair and unbiased administration of elections is considered political rather than patriotic. Thank you for assisting in the election, and thank you for your excellent software projects, but in this case I think that you were incorrect.

morelisp 6y ago
In many countries other than the US it is uncommon for private citizens in daily life to fly or display flags at all, let alone with some nationalist or political slogan adorning it, except when associated with right-wing activism.
pjc50 6y ago
> political rather than patriotic Unfortunately patriotism itself is highly political; the ultimate question of "my country, right or wrong" results in some people noticing that it is in fact wrong in some cases. Do they not teach Clausewitz in the US military? "War is the continuation of politics by other means". Every shot fired in anger is a political act. Not the politics of the person firing it, but those directing the fire. It is possible to try to be non-partisan, but an apolitical military is an oxymoron. The US military is the guarantor of a host of political lines across the world; supporting South Korea or Taiwan or Israel or Germany or Bosnia is a political act. You can't sign up and then disclaim responsibility for the political results of following orders "apolitically". The last people who tried that got shot at Nuremberg.
- brandmeyer 6y ago
  > Not the politics of the person firing it, but those directing the fire. ... you're almost there... and yet ... > It is possible to try to be non-partisan, but an apolitical military is an oxymoron. > > The US military is the guarantor of a host of political lines across the world; supporting South Korea or Taiwan or Israel or Germany or Bosnia is a political act. At the direction of the duly elected civilian leadership. > You can't sign up and then disclaim responsibility for the political results of following orders "apolitically". The last people who tried that got shot at Nuremberg. This isn't considered a matter of politics. Its a matter of honor and lawfulness.
  - morelisp 6y ago
    Who is elected as citizen leadership is a matter of politics. What is lawful is a matter of politics. Americans need to stop confusing "non-partisan" (or worse "partisan but not along R/D lines") for "apolitical".