4 ms·

One year after iPad: Is Adobe Flash still relevant?

25 points by Garbage 16y ago

mitjak 16y ago
That was a very long-winded way of saying "I don't really know. What do you think?"
citricsquid 16y ago
I have yet to see anything come close to the power of Flash for interactive content creation. I find it humorous when people release things done with HTML5 and everyone says "whoa this is amazing" which is true, but it's been possible since some of the earliest versions of Flash. It will take a lot more than the ipad to kill Flash, it will take people to build alternate tools that allow easy creation of interactive content... not a device that doesn't support the standard (standard is in italics because it isn't technically the standard, but it's what lots of people use, the majority anyway) An example of this from today: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h1mc6/interactive_html5_canvas_demonstration_of/ http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h1mc6/interacti... and then http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h1mc6/interactive_html5_canvas_demonstration_of/c1ry9sd http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h1mc6/interacti...
- kenjackson 16y ago
  Flash is still the gold standard. I'm still surprised that there isn't a more concerted effort to get Flash on more devices. HTML 5 is literally almost a decade behind Flash (Flash 7 feels like the closest, which was 2003). The HTML standards body just moves too slow (basically all standards bodies do, its the nature of the beast). Look at how Silverlight has changed since its been released, compared to HTML. I'm personally a fan of the plugin model in general. I feel like the only thing browsers should have is HTML/CSS and a way to talk to the DOM (maybe treat the DOM as a RESTful service). And then plugins that can be hosted for things like Javascript, C#, Flash, etc...
  - statictype 16y ago
    I'm still surprised that there isn't a more concerted effort to get Flash on more devices. All the attempts so far have been, um, less than stellar. Considering that Adobe and mobile OS providers have a strong incentive to make it work (basically to stick it to the iPad) and it hasn't happened yet would seem to strongly indicate that the Flash codebase, as it stands, is simply too complex or possibly too messy to make it work reasonably well on mobile platforms. They may have to just throw it away and start from scratch. Personally, I would rather see a concerted effort to make HTML5 and related technology/tools catch up to where Flash currently stands. (They have a ways to go as the OP has mentioned)
  - rimantas 16y ago
    > HTML 5 is literally almost a decade behind Flash It's not about Flash vs. HTML5 as many think. It's about flash vs. native apps.
    - statictype 16y ago
      I disagree. Once devices that don't support Flash become pervasive enough, everyone will have to write their flash-based web sites to support them. For most sites, this would mean using HTML5 (or related technologies), not writing a separate app that would require a developer license, approval, forking the codebase, etc...
- pacomerh 16y ago
  Agree, content creation is way ahead, but I wish there was an editor like Unity3D's to attach scripts to 3D objects that easy, but for flash, or I don't know of it
  - danibx 16y ago
    Unity will be able to target the flash player when its new 3d api, molehill, is launched.
jmspring 16y ago
Seems like the answer is -- "no" for mobile. Sure, there has been an announcement about hardware acceleration, but how many of the existing handsets will be able to take advantage of this? There are a few components to this question -- 1) hardware capability; 2) manufacturer support for an upgraded OS; 3) the carrier willing to push it. Fact is, with all the android devices out there, Flash is a joke. Initial impressions are proving Steve Jobs right, future technical advances will have a steep slope to prove otherwise.
webwright 16y ago
Um, yeah-- it sure is. 50% of Facebook logins are specifically to play games. Most of those games are Flash. (source: http://socialtimes.com/facebook-gamers-hours-per-month_b24156 http://socialtimes.com/facebook-gamers-hours-per-month_b2415... )
- frossie 16y ago
  Well the question is whether people mind. For example most web content aimed at kids is flash-based (pbskids etc) so you can't play those on the iPad; but then if you have an iPad there are many equivalent native games that you can use for the same purposes. I am sure the same is the case for adult games. If you have 15 minutes to wait for the dentist, do you care whether you are playing a Facebook game or Plants v. Zombies on your phone? Either way, it helps pass the time.
  - xiaoma 16y ago
    What's your replacement for sites like Kongregate or Newgrounds, where literally hundreds of new games show up every month, and you can just jump in and try them out at a whim and socialize with others doing the same? I don't mean this sarcastically, I'd love to have anything remotely that nice when on my iPod touch.
sciurus 16y ago
I just watched President Obama's speech live using a flash-based player. I don't know of a to perform live streaming with HTML5.
- tomstuart 16y ago
  http://developer.apple.com/resources/http-streaming/ http://developer.apple.com/resources/http-streaming/
- tjogin 16y ago
  On an iOS device, HTTP streaming would be the way (other clients like VLC support it too). http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009/07/apple-proposes-http-streaming-feature-as-a-protocol-standard.ars http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009/07/apple-proposes-http-... It's got nothing to do with HTML5 though, which I think is a good thing.
becomevocal 16y ago
Relevant? Yes. Future Proof? No. (At least for the general web.) Yet, I see a very bright future for Adobe. +1 for CS5.5 PhoneGap integration and subscription pricing.
deerparkwater 16y ago
Html5 is pointless for mobile devices. Html5>Flash>Java>Compiled Language At this time, most apps are compiled programs because flash doesn't run fast enough on the sub 1gz CPUs. Flash should be even more relevant than it was before as it'll only be longer until HTML5 can do what flash does on mobile devices. Mobile devices can only increase the life span of flash. Regardless, Flash > Javascript/HTML/OpenGL/java. It's a great API
RexRollman 16y ago
Personally speaking, I consider the lack of Flash to be a feature; not a bug.
tintin 16y ago
"Apple refuses to spend the time and due diligence with Adobe to fully optimize it correctly. Unfortunately, as I have noted earlier, Google is also 100 percent guilty of this as well." It all depends on how Adobe is willing to adapt. It's easy to blame Google and Apple because we only know one side of the story. Linux sources are available but the Flashplayer still sucks on Linux. Android sources are also available. So I'm not sure about the 100%.
ludicast 16y ago
Flash not being on the iPad has nothing to do with its instability. It has to do with Steve Jobs wanting to control the App Store 100%. People being able to run Flash Apps gives a means for them to go around Apple's back and not give Apple money. The fact is that JS/Canvas is where Flash was 8 years ago. And when they finally finalize the HTML5 spec Flash will be someplace else again. Flash runs fine on my Nook Color, without destroying it. Eventually the competing tablets might coax Apple to embrace Flash at some point. Or not...

25 points by Garbage 16y ago

That was a very long-winded way of saying "I don't really know. What do you think?"

I have yet to see anything come close to the power of Flash for interactive content creation. I find it humorous when people release things done with HTML5 and everyone says "whoa this is amazing" which is true, but it's been possible since some of the earliest versions of Flash. It will take a lot more than the ipad to kill Flash, it will take people to build alternate tools that allow easy creation of interactive content... not a device that doesn't support the standard (standard is in italics because it isn't technically the standard, but it's what lots of people use, the majority anyway) An example of this from today: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h1mc6/interactive_html5_canvas_demonstration_of/ http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h1mc6/interacti... and then http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h1mc6/interactive_html5_canvas_demonstration_of/c1ry9sd http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/h1mc6/interacti...

kenjackson 16y ago
Flash is still the gold standard. I'm still surprised that there isn't a more concerted effort to get Flash on more devices. HTML 5 is literally almost a decade behind Flash (Flash 7 feels like the closest, which was 2003). The HTML standards body just moves too slow (basically all standards bodies do, its the nature of the beast). Look at how Silverlight has changed since its been released, compared to HTML. I'm personally a fan of the plugin model in general. I feel like the only thing browsers should have is HTML/CSS and a way to talk to the DOM (maybe treat the DOM as a RESTful service). And then plugins that can be hosted for things like Javascript, C#, Flash, etc...
- statictype 16y ago
  I'm still surprised that there isn't a more concerted effort to get Flash on more devices. All the attempts so far have been, um, less than stellar. Considering that Adobe and mobile OS providers have a strong incentive to make it work (basically to stick it to the iPad) and it hasn't happened yet would seem to strongly indicate that the Flash codebase, as it stands, is simply too complex or possibly too messy to make it work reasonably well on mobile platforms. They may have to just throw it away and start from scratch. Personally, I would rather see a concerted effort to make HTML5 and related technology/tools catch up to where Flash currently stands. (They have a ways to go as the OP has mentioned)
- rimantas 16y ago
  > HTML 5 is literally almost a decade behind Flash It's not about Flash vs. HTML5 as many think. It's about flash vs. native apps.
  - statictype 16y ago
    I disagree. Once devices that don't support Flash become pervasive enough, everyone will have to write their flash-based web sites to support them. For most sites, this would mean using HTML5 (or related technologies), not writing a separate app that would require a developer license, approval, forking the codebase, etc...
pacomerh 16y ago
Agree, content creation is way ahead, but I wish there was an editor like Unity3D's to attach scripts to 3D objects that easy, but for flash, or I don't know of it
- danibx 16y ago
  Unity will be able to target the flash player when its new 3d api, molehill, is launched.

jmspring 16y ago

Seems like the answer is -- "no" for mobile. Sure, there has been an announcement about hardware acceleration, but how many of the existing handsets will be able to take advantage of this? There are a few components to this question -- 1) hardware capability; 2) manufacturer support for an upgraded OS; 3) the carrier willing to push it. Fact is, with all the android devices out there, Flash is a joke. Initial impressions are proving Steve Jobs right, future technical advances will have a steep slope to prove otherwise.

webwright 16y ago

Um, yeah-- it sure is. 50% of Facebook logins are specifically to play games. Most of those games are Flash. (source: http://socialtimes.com/facebook-gamers-hours-per-month_b24156 http://socialtimes.com/facebook-gamers-hours-per-month_b2415... )

frossie 16y ago
Well the question is whether people mind. For example most web content aimed at kids is flash-based (pbskids etc) so you can't play those on the iPad; but then if you have an iPad there are many equivalent native games that you can use for the same purposes. I am sure the same is the case for adult games. If you have 15 minutes to wait for the dentist, do you care whether you are playing a Facebook game or Plants v. Zombies on your phone? Either way, it helps pass the time.
- xiaoma 16y ago
  What's your replacement for sites like Kongregate or Newgrounds, where literally hundreds of new games show up every month, and you can just jump in and try them out at a whim and socialize with others doing the same? I don't mean this sarcastically, I'd love to have anything remotely that nice when on my iPod touch.

sciurus 16y ago

I just watched President Obama's speech live using a flash-based player. I don't know of a to perform live streaming with HTML5.

tomstuart 16y ago
http://developer.apple.com/resources/http-streaming/ http://developer.apple.com/resources/http-streaming/
tjogin 16y ago
On an iOS device, HTTP streaming would be the way (other clients like VLC support it too). http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009/07/apple-proposes-http-streaming-feature-as-a-protocol-standard.ars http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009/07/apple-proposes-http-... It's got nothing to do with HTML5 though, which I think is a good thing.

becomevocal 16y ago

Relevant? Yes. Future Proof? No. (At least for the general web.) Yet, I see a very bright future for Adobe. +1 for CS5.5 PhoneGap integration and subscription pricing.

deerparkwater 16y ago

Html5 is pointless for mobile devices. Html5>Flash>Java>Compiled Language At this time, most apps are compiled programs because flash doesn't run fast enough on the sub 1gz CPUs. Flash should be even more relevant than it was before as it'll only be longer until HTML5 can do what flash does on mobile devices. Mobile devices can only increase the life span of flash. Regardless, Flash > Javascript/HTML/OpenGL/java. It's a great API

RexRollman 16y ago

Personally speaking, I consider the lack of Flash to be a feature; not a bug.

tintin 16y ago

"Apple refuses to spend the time and due diligence with Adobe to fully optimize it correctly. Unfortunately, as I have noted earlier, Google is also 100 percent guilty of this as well." It all depends on how Adobe is willing to adapt. It's easy to blame Google and Apple because we only know one side of the story. Linux sources are available but the Flashplayer still sucks on Linux. Android sources are also available. So I'm not sure about the 100%.

ludicast 16y ago

Flash not being on the iPad has nothing to do with its instability. It has to do with Steve Jobs wanting to control the App Store 100%. People being able to run Flash Apps gives a means for them to go around Apple's back and not give Apple money. The fact is that JS/Canvas is where Flash was 8 years ago. And when they finally finalize the HTML5 spec Flash will be someplace else again. Flash runs fine on my Nook Color, without destroying it. Eventually the competing tablets might coax Apple to embrace Flash at some point. Or not...