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One thing I've always wondered, is whether moderating a forum like HN (or any forum, really) is mentally stimulating enough to do day in and day out. As a web

One thing I've always wondered, is whether moderating a forum like HN (or any forum, really) is mentally stimulating enough to do day in and day out. As a web developer, the more I do the more I crave novel challenges. Writing CRUD apps or getters and setters gets old fast. Are there novel challenges with content moderation?

wpietri 6y ago
I can't say for HN, but the general answer is yes. Social systems tend to produce a lot of novel behavior, with plenty of surprising second- and third-order effects. Dealing with jerks, trolls, griefers, etc, is an arms race; they're always looking for new ways to mess things up. And the tools in this space are constantly evolving, too; for example, there's a lot of interesting ML work being done for automated content tagging.
- chrisweekly 6y ago
  Plus the content here is generally of intrinsic interest, and the commentary / community of sufficient quality that working in its active defense likely carries some of its own reward in the doing.
FrojoS 6y ago
If you had a second stealth account to join discussions Im sure its plenty stimulating. But even just reading might be enough. HN is full of lurkers who spend an insane amount of time here. edit: Im not saying the moderators have stealth accounts!
- tptacek 6y ago
  That does not seem at all like Dan's style.
  - mkl 6y ago
    Yes. While it's never really been stealth [1], Dan does still use gruseom occasionally (not for the above purposes): https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=gruseom https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=gruseom [1] https://blog.ycombinator.com/meet-the-people-taking-over-hacker-news/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/meet-the-people-taking-over-hac... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7493856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7493856
newscracker 6y ago
As someone who moderates and has moderated content involving a whole lot of users, it can be taxing and sometimes mind numbing when people don’t follow the rules and you get spam. I’m sure HN has spam detection and removal in its ever improving code, but there would still be a lot to handle manually when it comes to guideline violations. In my experience elsewhere, there may be cases that aren’t clear cut as to whether they’re appropriate or what the writer intended to convey. Especially on a forum where people from different cultures converge, there’s a lot of space to misunderstand and be misunderstood. At the same time, being able to read and learn from other people’s thoughts is always a stimulating experience. It gives opportunities to develop better mental models on certain things and also be able to explain certain things better to others. So yeah, there are pros and cons, but I wouldn’t want to do this without a few other people who can take the workload and provide a break when it gets too tiring and exhausting.
iratewizard 6y ago
Novel challenges? Feigning impartiality when the topic being discussed impacts a YC startup is up there.
- chrisweekly 6y ago
  Risking violation of "don't feed the trolls" here to reply: that seems unnecessarily harsh. FTR I'm not downvoting you any further, but responding in case you have more specific and articulate criticism to level.
  - iratewizard 6y ago
    I've seen several instances over the years. The one that stands out for me is a post about ICC suing a YC company. It was an astroturf-fest.
    - dang 6y ago
      If you're going to make this sort of accusation, you should link to the thread so people can make up their own minds. With linkless insinuations, the actual story is usually significantly different from what is being insinuated.
      - TulliusCicero 6y ago
        This is a good policy. I've noticed the same thing in my moderation efforts. The amount of gross exaggeration by some users is pretty stark.
    - Karunamon 6y ago
      The problem with astroturf accusations is that they are all flamebait (even if true), off-topic meta noise (the point stops being discussed in favor of the commenters), and worst of all unfalsifiable (how do you prove you're not a shill?). I've been spending a lot more time on political boards as of late, and I've yet to see accusations along these lines be even a net neutral. On balance, they're always bad.
- 6y ago
NationalPark 6y ago
I've moderated forums similar to HN and it's a mixed bag. There are pretty much always troublesome users who deliberately look for ways to push boundaries or break rules in spirit but not in letter. Dealing with them is a huge drain and it can be really depressing to find out how many people there are going out of their way to make your community unpleasant. Or you spend half your time deleting the same racial slurs from the same 5 or 6 people who keep evading bans. The drama is exciting though.

wpietri 6y ago

I can't say for HN, but the general answer is yes. Social systems tend to produce a lot of novel behavior, with plenty of surprising second- and third-order effects. Dealing with jerks, trolls, griefers, etc, is an arms race; they're always looking for new ways to mess things up. And the tools in this space are constantly evolving, too; for example, there's a lot of interesting ML work being done for automated content tagging.

chrisweekly 6y ago
Plus the content here is generally of intrinsic interest, and the commentary / community of sufficient quality that working in its active defense likely carries some of its own reward in the doing.

FrojoS 6y ago

If you had a second stealth account to join discussions Im sure its plenty stimulating. But even just reading might be enough. HN is full of lurkers who spend an insane amount of time here. edit: Im not saying the moderators have stealth accounts!

tptacek 6y ago
That does not seem at all like Dan's style.
- mkl 6y ago
  Yes. While it's never really been stealth [1], Dan does still use gruseom occasionally (not for the above purposes): https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=gruseom https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=gruseom [1] https://blog.ycombinator.com/meet-the-people-taking-over-hacker-news/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/meet-the-people-taking-over-hac... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7493856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7493856

newscracker 6y ago

As someone who moderates and has moderated content involving a whole lot of users, it can be taxing and sometimes mind numbing when people don’t follow the rules and you get spam. I’m sure HN has spam detection and removal in its ever improving code, but there would still be a lot to handle manually when it comes to guideline violations. In my experience elsewhere, there may be cases that aren’t clear cut as to whether they’re appropriate or what the writer intended to convey. Especially on a forum where people from different cultures converge, there’s a lot of space to misunderstand and be misunderstood. At the same time, being able to read and learn from other people’s thoughts is always a stimulating experience. It gives opportunities to develop better mental models on certain things and also be able to explain certain things better to others. So yeah, there are pros and cons, but I wouldn’t want to do this without a few other people who can take the workload and provide a break when it gets too tiring and exhausting.

iratewizard 6y ago

Novel challenges? Feigning impartiality when the topic being discussed impacts a YC startup is up there.

chrisweekly 6y ago
Risking violation of "don't feed the trolls" here to reply: that seems unnecessarily harsh. FTR I'm not downvoting you any further, but responding in case you have more specific and articulate criticism to level.
- iratewizard 6y ago
  I've seen several instances over the years. The one that stands out for me is a post about ICC suing a YC company. It was an astroturf-fest.
  - dang 6y ago
    If you're going to make this sort of accusation, you should link to the thread so people can make up their own minds. With linkless insinuations, the actual story is usually significantly different from what is being insinuated.
    - TulliusCicero 6y ago
      This is a good policy. I've noticed the same thing in my moderation efforts. The amount of gross exaggeration by some users is pretty stark.
  - Karunamon 6y ago
    The problem with astroturf accusations is that they are all flamebait (even if true), off-topic meta noise (the point stops being discussed in favor of the commenters), and worst of all unfalsifiable (how do you prove you're not a shill?). I've been spending a lot more time on political boards as of late, and I've yet to see accusations along these lines be even a net neutral. On balance, they're always bad.
6y ago

NationalPark 6y ago

I've moderated forums similar to HN and it's a mixed bag. There are pretty much always troublesome users who deliberately look for ways to push boundaries or break rules in spirit but not in letter. Dealing with them is a huge drain and it can be really depressing to find out how many people there are going out of their way to make your community unpleasant. Or you spend half your time deleting the same racial slurs from the same 5 or 6 people who keep evading bans. The drama is exciting though.