4 ms·

Does anybody knows if .NET 5.0 will be included in Windows as a Windows Update as the .NET Framework ?

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
It won't be. .NET Framework is an embedded component of Windows. .NET Core is something apps have to package along with them. (Due to this, .NET Core apps are larger than .NET Framework apps, but tend to have less compatibility issues in theory, since they bring everything they need with them.)
- dt3ft 6y ago
  Are you sure it will not be distributed with Windows? Is 4.8 the last version being distributed with Windows, requiring all future .NET framework versions to be packaged with the apps?
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    The idea is that its installed separately from windows, in the same way one might install java. So because you can have mutiple versions installed, or you can package it with an app , then the updates can be more rapid. The problem with .Net framework is that everything, including system services rely on it - that means it needs years of testing and can't have any breaking changes. Basically they decided that packaging .net as part of windows was a mistake.
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      I feel their mistake was not allowing apps to call a specific version if needbe, not with the general decision to include it in Windows. While .NET Framework updates annoyingly force every app to use it, I expect .NET Core to make it super difficult to secure apps that decided to hardcode some specific ancient release of it and allow no way to override it.
      - WorldMaker 6y ago
        .NET Framework was built to support and did allow systems to have multiple versions installed side-by-side and apps to call specific Framework versions and was built to support many versions side-by-side. But that turned out to be more difficult in practice than in theory. Multiple side-by-side Frameworks turned out to be more hassle than useful, and even with just 3 versions of the Framework that were built to live side-by-side (1.x, 2.x, sort of 4.x, long story) that was often pointed to as a source of bloat in Windows. The mistake to include it in Windows was partly why more versions weren't made (because then they'd have to be serviced for the length of a Windows version's service lifetime; because then they'd contribute way more to Windows bloat).
  - atraac 6y ago
    4.8 is the version of a .NET Framework. What we have now is essentially .NET Core 4, with a misleading name of .NET 5 that confuses people. .NET Core is not being provided with Windows Update, like someone already said, you need to package it yourself with your app.
  - jhoward321 6y ago
    There will be no future .NET framework versions so I believe he's correct. .NET 5 is a new version of .net core
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    Yeah, .NET Framework will see no new features, so they'll continue to patch bugs in 4.8 probably for over a decade to come, and a lot of new apps will just not use it, and include .NET Core runtime instead.
- jiggawatts 6y ago
  It also means that the first major vulnerability in .NET Core will be an unmitigated clusterfuck, as admins will have no automated tooling in place to update .NET Core with security patches. "Just recompile with the new version!" I hear the cries already, said by people that have never had to support literally a thousand applications in a government data centre, half of which were built years ago by a vendor that is long since bankrupt.
  - huzaif 6y ago
    Publish your apps without .net core (--no-self-contained) and install/manage runtimes as you usually would. If you have thousand apps, you probably also have a CI/CD system and you can gain fine grained control on your runtime management needs with .net build/publish. MS does quite a few things poorly but they have done a solid job of operating in large enterprises.
    - jiggawatts 6y ago
      > you probably also have a CI/CD system Or more realistically, dozens of CI/CD systems, covering less than a third of the applications.
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      "Publish your apps" isn't the issue: I support a lot of applications I don't build or have the source code for. And they may be on my network for over ten years. The problem is if developers are publishing self-contained apps with .NET Core, IT staff will be up a creek on vulnerability mitigation. While being able to pin specific .NET Core versions is nice for developers, being able to require the most current .NET Core version be used is important for IT staff who have to support these applications.
      - hackerfromthefu 6y ago
        I'm expecting as this issue plays out, there will be a way to inject an updated framework to an existing app with a utility tool. Probably first party but definitely third party.
- int_19h 6y ago
  .NET Core apps don't have to package the framework. They can also require it to be installed separately, although it's still not an OS component in that case. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/deploying/#publish-framework-dependent https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/deploying/#publ...
mariusmg 6y ago
Nope, since this .NET 5 is NOT a replacemnt for .Net Framework 4.8

It won't be. .NET Framework is an embedded component of Windows. .NET Core is something apps have to package along with them. (Due to this, .NET Core apps are larger than .NET Framework apps, but tend to have less compatibility issues in theory, since they bring everything they need with them.)

dt3ft 6y ago
Are you sure it will not be distributed with Windows? Is 4.8 the last version being distributed with Windows, requiring all future .NET framework versions to be packaged with the apps?
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  The idea is that its installed separately from windows, in the same way one might install java. So because you can have mutiple versions installed, or you can package it with an app , then the updates can be more rapid. The problem with .Net framework is that everything, including system services rely on it - that means it needs years of testing and can't have any breaking changes. Basically they decided that packaging .net as part of windows was a mistake.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    I feel their mistake was not allowing apps to call a specific version if needbe, not with the general decision to include it in Windows. While .NET Framework updates annoyingly force every app to use it, I expect .NET Core to make it super difficult to secure apps that decided to hardcode some specific ancient release of it and allow no way to override it.
    - WorldMaker 6y ago
      .NET Framework was built to support and did allow systems to have multiple versions installed side-by-side and apps to call specific Framework versions and was built to support many versions side-by-side. But that turned out to be more difficult in practice than in theory. Multiple side-by-side Frameworks turned out to be more hassle than useful, and even with just 3 versions of the Framework that were built to live side-by-side (1.x, 2.x, sort of 4.x, long story) that was often pointed to as a source of bloat in Windows. The mistake to include it in Windows was partly why more versions weren't made (because then they'd have to be serviced for the length of a Windows version's service lifetime; because then they'd contribute way more to Windows bloat).
- atraac 6y ago
  4.8 is the version of a .NET Framework. What we have now is essentially .NET Core 4, with a misleading name of .NET 5 that confuses people. .NET Core is not being provided with Windows Update, like someone already said, you need to package it yourself with your app.
- jhoward321 6y ago
  There will be no future .NET framework versions so I believe he's correct. .NET 5 is a new version of .net core
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  Yeah, .NET Framework will see no new features, so they'll continue to patch bugs in 4.8 probably for over a decade to come, and a lot of new apps will just not use it, and include .NET Core runtime instead.
jiggawatts 6y ago
It also means that the first major vulnerability in .NET Core will be an unmitigated clusterfuck, as admins will have no automated tooling in place to update .NET Core with security patches. "Just recompile with the new version!" I hear the cries already, said by people that have never had to support literally a thousand applications in a government data centre, half of which were built years ago by a vendor that is long since bankrupt.
- huzaif 6y ago
  Publish your apps without .net core (--no-self-contained) and install/manage runtimes as you usually would. If you have thousand apps, you probably also have a CI/CD system and you can gain fine grained control on your runtime management needs with .net build/publish. MS does quite a few things poorly but they have done a solid job of operating in large enterprises.
  - jiggawatts 6y ago
    > you probably also have a CI/CD system Or more realistically, dozens of CI/CD systems, covering less than a third of the applications.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    "Publish your apps" isn't the issue: I support a lot of applications I don't build or have the source code for. And they may be on my network for over ten years. The problem is if developers are publishing self-contained apps with .NET Core, IT staff will be up a creek on vulnerability mitigation. While being able to pin specific .NET Core versions is nice for developers, being able to require the most current .NET Core version be used is important for IT staff who have to support these applications.
    - hackerfromthefu 6y ago
      I'm expecting as this issue plays out, there will be a way to inject an updated framework to an existing app with a utility tool. Probably first party but definitely third party.
int_19h 6y ago
.NET Core apps don't have to package the framework. They can also require it to be installed separately, although it's still not an OS component in that case. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/deploying/#publish-framework-dependent https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/deploying/#publ...

mariusmg 6y ago

Nope, since this .NET 5 is NOT a replacemnt for .Net Framework 4.8