8 ms·

After starting to read HN regularly I noticed most of these types of comments are just posturing. Like any forum, the loudest people tend to be the ones that de

After starting to read HN regularly I noticed most of these types of comments are just posturing. Like any forum, the loudest people tend to be the ones that desire/require the most validation from their peers.

rriepe 6y ago
Yep it's locker room talk.
52-6F-62 6y ago
Yep, and you’ll find that kind of posturing everywhere, just like the personality that tends to do it. The scale of it carries some pretty great comedy, though.
lwigo 6y ago
It's a way to stand out in a field crowded with junior and mid tier developers. Show up and talk a big game, and certain other people will listen and assume you're an amazing asset. Not required and perhaps jaded, but it also helps if you have even a tiny semblance of an influencer lifestyle or a type of WeWorkian God complex. I had a guy tell me once that "if you're not making at least $250k a year, then you failed as a developer". That was his honest life and career advice. It's depressing.
- giantg2 6y ago
  The depressing advice I once recieved from a previous manager: "Not everyone has the potential to be more than a midlevel developer."
- jbay808 6y ago
  > "if you're not making at least $250k a year, then you failed as a developer" This is a trope that runs through HN that gets frustrating sometimes. There's often a follow-up comment along the lines of "Only 250k? A fresh grad in the bay area can expect that much in salary, but if you're even average, total comp should be at least double that to be competitive!"
m-i-l 6y ago
> the loudest people tend to be the ones that desire/require the most validation from their peers I have a theory that IT is split into "doers", i.e. the people who do things, and "talkers", i.e. the people who talk about doing things. By definition, you hear from the talkers more, perhaps because the doers are too busy actually doing things, and to your point there are times when the talkers can sound dismissive of the doers, for whatever reason. But in HN's defence, you do hear more from actual doers here than perhaps anywhere else.
- giantg2 6y ago
  I can see that. I would probably be on here a lot less if I had an interesting job.
- jb1991 6y ago
  What you described is certainly not unique just to the IT industry.
seibelj 6y ago
I installed an app called “Blind” which is an anonymous social network for SV software engineers. The amount of self doubt, envy, complaining about not being able to work FAANG / feeling underpaid despite working at FAANG is exhausting. So many people in this industry have a toxic mentality.
- necubi 6y ago
  Blind self-selects for the worst of these attitudes (in addition to the general shittiness of almost any anonymous community). I would not take this as representative of SV. The private forum for my company is amazingly toxic.
- hengri 6y ago
  Blind is terrible. I think only the toxic ones stick around though. I doubt most people are like this.
- cvhashim 6y ago
  Blind is full jerks. Don’t take their advice as gospel.
HeyHoJoe 6y ago
I’m convinced that most of the users on this site are sitting in their house that they rent with eight other people in their underwear eating beans out of a can.
- tom_ 6y ago
  Well, $450,000 a year doesn't get you far in the bay area.
  - seattle_spring 6y ago
    It only gets you a ~1.5m mortgage, extremely high savings rate, access to private schools, all while living in one of the most beautiful and desirable metropolitan areas in the world. Basically poverty, in other words.
    - HeyHoJoe 6y ago
      Quiet you, back to eating your beans.
      - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
        He gets to have artisinal fair trade beans.
    - bradlys 6y ago
      And what does a $1.5m mortgage get you in the peninsula? Maybe 1000-1200sqft? How lavish... You don't get an extremely high savings rate either in terms of ratios (unless you live a very economical lifestyle (small apartments/rooms, old/no car, etc.)).
      - seattle_spring 6y ago
        Monthly take-home pay for $450k is ~$21k in California Monthly mortgage payment for $1.5m is ~$6.5k Remaining money for literally everything else, almost none of which is more expensive in California: $17.5k, or $210k per year. You could eat out every single night and buy a new BMW twice a year, and still save more than 20% of your take-home pay. Not only that, but we're talking about salaries for ONE SINGLE PERSON. Married in tech? We're talking a $900k annual salary. Calling this lifestyle "very economical" is so insanely out of touch with how most people live their lives, it's no wonder tech people are hated as completely out of touch. Edit: Changed $24k to $21k, the calculator I used didn't include state taxes even though California was the chosen state.

rriepe 6y ago

Yep it's locker room talk.

52-6F-62 6y ago

Yep, and you’ll find that kind of posturing everywhere, just like the personality that tends to do it. The scale of it carries some pretty great comedy, though.

lwigo 6y ago

It's a way to stand out in a field crowded with junior and mid tier developers. Show up and talk a big game, and certain other people will listen and assume you're an amazing asset. Not required and perhaps jaded, but it also helps if you have even a tiny semblance of an influencer lifestyle or a type of WeWorkian God complex. I had a guy tell me once that "if you're not making at least $250k a year, then you failed as a developer". That was his honest life and career advice. It's depressing.

giantg2 6y ago
The depressing advice I once recieved from a previous manager: "Not everyone has the potential to be more than a midlevel developer."
jbay808 6y ago
> "if you're not making at least $250k a year, then you failed as a developer" This is a trope that runs through HN that gets frustrating sometimes. There's often a follow-up comment along the lines of "Only 250k? A fresh grad in the bay area can expect that much in salary, but if you're even average, total comp should be at least double that to be competitive!"

m-i-l 6y ago

> the loudest people tend to be the ones that desire/require the most validation from their peers I have a theory that IT is split into "doers", i.e. the people who do things, and "talkers", i.e. the people who talk about doing things. By definition, you hear from the talkers more, perhaps because the doers are too busy actually doing things, and to your point there are times when the talkers can sound dismissive of the doers, for whatever reason. But in HN's defence, you do hear more from actual doers here than perhaps anywhere else.

giantg2 6y ago
I can see that. I would probably be on here a lot less if I had an interesting job.
jb1991 6y ago
What you described is certainly not unique just to the IT industry.

seibelj 6y ago

I installed an app called “Blind” which is an anonymous social network for SV software engineers. The amount of self doubt, envy, complaining about not being able to work FAANG / feeling underpaid despite working at FAANG is exhausting. So many people in this industry have a toxic mentality.

necubi 6y ago
Blind self-selects for the worst of these attitudes (in addition to the general shittiness of almost any anonymous community). I would not take this as representative of SV. The private forum for my company is amazingly toxic.
hengri 6y ago
Blind is terrible. I think only the toxic ones stick around though. I doubt most people are like this.
cvhashim 6y ago
Blind is full jerks. Don’t take their advice as gospel.

HeyHoJoe 6y ago

I’m convinced that most of the users on this site are sitting in their house that they rent with eight other people in their underwear eating beans out of a can.

tom_ 6y ago
Well, $450,000 a year doesn't get you far in the bay area.
- seattle_spring 6y ago
  It only gets you a ~1.5m mortgage, extremely high savings rate, access to private schools, all while living in one of the most beautiful and desirable metropolitan areas in the world. Basically poverty, in other words.
  - HeyHoJoe 6y ago
    Quiet you, back to eating your beans.
    - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
      He gets to have artisinal fair trade beans.
  - bradlys 6y ago
    And what does a $1.5m mortgage get you in the peninsula? Maybe 1000-1200sqft? How lavish... You don't get an extremely high savings rate either in terms of ratios (unless you live a very economical lifestyle (small apartments/rooms, old/no car, etc.)).
    - seattle_spring 6y ago
      Monthly take-home pay for $450k is ~$21k in California Monthly mortgage payment for $1.5m is ~$6.5k Remaining money for literally everything else, almost none of which is more expensive in California: $17.5k, or $210k per year. You could eat out every single night and buy a new BMW twice a year, and still save more than 20% of your take-home pay. Not only that, but we're talking about salaries for ONE SINGLE PERSON. Married in tech? We're talking a $900k annual salary. Calling this lifestyle "very economical" is so insanely out of touch with how most people live their lives, it's no wonder tech people are hated as completely out of touch. Edit: Changed $24k to $21k, the calculator I used didn't include state taxes even though California was the chosen state.