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Probably Go at this point in time. They care about API stability, keeping scope focused and about technical improvement instead of marketing. And the language i

by qz2 6y ago

Probably Go at this point in time. They care about API stability, keeping scope focused and about technical improvement instead of marketing. And the language is nice to use! There are warts but they take a measured structural approach to resolving them and caring about the change.

dustinmoris 6y ago
I was going to say the same, but you said it much nicer than I would have done.
forest_dweller 6y ago
Are you saying that .NET API isn't stable? I have code that works from .NET 1.1 back in 2004. I wouldn't use any of their flavor of the month tech they release from the conferences. But the .NET framework has been pretty stable over the last 15 years.
- qz2 6y ago
  No it doesn’t. Try it on .Net 5.0.
  - forest_dweller 6y ago
    It works with .NET Standard, .NET Core and .NET 4+ and I am pretty sure when I do the upgrade it will just work.
int_19h 6y ago
Go might care about their own API stability, but it took them years to stop doing direct syscalls on macOS (where it is not a stable ABI); and last I checked, they were still doing that on BSDs. As for technical improvements, well... it's a language that took, what, almost a decade to add generics? And that's because the designers were claiming that everybody else is doing them wrong, and they want to figure out how to do it right. Now that they're finally adding them, turns out that they look exactly the same as everybody else's.
- qz2 6y ago
  You have to do direct syscalls if your lowest level is not C. I don’t see your point. Perhaps vendors should have stable ABIs?
  - int_19h 6y ago
    Vendors do have stable ABIs: libc. You don't have to be writing in C to make calls into C libraries, and it would be rather strange for a language to be unable to use the C ABI, yet claim to be a systems programming language. You might notice that no other language has this problem. Besides, Go does use libc on macOS (now), and always used Win32 API calls on Windows, so it clearly can be done. It's just that for a while, they've decided that being fast on macOS was more important than respecting the ABI stability guarantees from the OS.

by qz2 6y ago

dustinmoris 6y ago

I was going to say the same, but you said it much nicer than I would have done.

forest_dweller 6y ago

Are you saying that .NET API isn't stable? I have code that works from .NET 1.1 back in 2004. I wouldn't use any of their flavor of the month tech they release from the conferences. But the .NET framework has been pretty stable over the last 15 years.

qz2 6y ago
No it doesn’t. Try it on .Net 5.0.
- forest_dweller 6y ago
  It works with .NET Standard, .NET Core and .NET 4+ and I am pretty sure when I do the upgrade it will just work.

int_19h 6y ago

Go might care about their own API stability, but it took them years to stop doing direct syscalls on macOS (where it is not a stable ABI); and last I checked, they were still doing that on BSDs. As for technical improvements, well... it's a language that took, what, almost a decade to add generics? And that's because the designers were claiming that everybody else is doing them wrong, and they want to figure out how to do it right. Now that they're finally adding them, turns out that they look exactly the same as everybody else's.

qz2 6y ago
You have to do direct syscalls if your lowest level is not C. I don’t see your point. Perhaps vendors should have stable ABIs?
- int_19h 6y ago
  Vendors do have stable ABIs: libc. You don't have to be writing in C to make calls into C libraries, and it would be rather strange for a language to be unable to use the C ABI, yet claim to be a systems programming language. You might notice that no other language has this problem. Besides, Go does use libc on macOS (now), and always used Win32 API calls on Windows, so it clearly can be done. It's just that for a while, they've decided that being fast on macOS was more important than respecting the ABI stability guarantees from the OS.