5 ms·

As another poster said, the very large company I work at bans Zoom. We can use Teams, Webex, Skype, etc. How can you say there is no alternative?

by wil421 6y ago

desilentio 6y ago
Sorry, I didn't think in terms of degrees of untrustworthiness. What I miss is an open-source alternative. Doesn't Microsoft let the NSA tap into Skype calls?
- acoard 6y ago
  >Doesn't Microsoft let the NSA tap into Skype calls? Yes, but it seems like Skype was doing that prior to being acquired (though Microsoft seems to have accelerated things). From some quick Googling to refresh on PRISM – >• In July last year, nine months after Microsoft bought Skype, the NSA boasted that a new capability had tripled the amount of Skype video calls being collected through Prism; >• Microsoft helped the NSA to circumvent its encryption to address concerns that the agency would be unable to intercept web chats on the new Outlook.com portal; >Eight months before being bought by Microsoft, Skype joined the Prism program in February 2011. > According to the NSA documents, work had begun on smoothly integrating Skype into Prism in November 2010, but it was not until 4 February 2011 that the company was served with a directive to comply signed by the attorney general. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-...
  - wolco2 6y ago
    Don't forget about teams.
- bborud 6y ago
  I wouldn't assume that any given service is secure just because it hasn't been outed yet. Your guess is as good as mine with regard to which service is more secure or less secure. What is immensely important is to raise the cost of lying to where it becomes something investors care about. The only real thing a company and its investors are afraid of is losing its customers. If we teach companies it is okay to lie by staying with them, they will lie more.
- bo1024 6y ago
  How about Jitsi? https://meet.jit.si/ https://meet.jit.si/ https://jitsi.org/ https://jitsi.org/
  - mcrittenden 6y ago
    They said: "I got them to try Jitsi once, which simply didn't work."
    - bo1024 6y ago
      Ah thanks, I didn't see that was the same person higher up.
- BlueTemplar 6y ago
  There are at least half a dozen of open-source alternatives. Have you tried all of them ? For instance Big Blue Button : it's not perfect, because it's Canadian, it's hosted on Microsoft's Github, and might have some outstanding security issues [1], but I would probably still trust it more than Zoom or anything GAFAM. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigBlueButton#Security https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigBlueButton#Security
floatingatoll 6y ago
Each of those alternatives is just as likely to offer government wiretap support to any government that asks as Zoom is, unless I’ve missed statements of refusal to do so to the contrary from them.
- baja_blast 6y ago
  I think the concern is trade secret theft. Sure the US or EU might demand a wiretap but their goals are different. You don't see the CIA stealing trade secrets and handing them over to Apple or Microsoft. Businesses are primarily worried about their IP.
  - BlueTemplar 6y ago
    That would probably be the NSA, and why would you expect them to NOT do industrial espionage ?
    - nix23 6y ago
      Well they do...it's not new: https://www.bbc.com/news/25907502 https://www.bbc.com/news/25907502
hackmiester 6y ago
Teams does not allow users to place themselves in breakout rooms. Webex does not allow Linux users to grant control of their screens. When you use these platforms all the time, you find these little issues. Generally speaking, Zoom does it best, despite their problems.
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  You can set up channels in a ‘team’ and use those for breakouts.
  - hackmiester 6y ago
    This would require all the attendees to be members of the team ahead of the meeting; this isn't how we use Zoom.
    - mensetmanusman 6y ago
      Ya, definitely requires more pre-planning, but maybe it’s still a hack that could be used. Just delete the ‘team’ afterwards. Maybe there is a way to automate this with some VB/Python script?
walrus01 6y ago
I know of more than one company where installing zoom on any company owned equipment, or using zoom on your own client devices for company business is a fireable offense. These are companies that deal with some very sensitive data.
jes5199 6y ago
never heard of these also-rans

As another poster said, the very large company I work at bans Zoom. We can use Teams, Webex, Skype, etc. How can you say there is no alternative?

by wil421 6y ago

As another poster said, the very large company I work at bans Zoom. We can use Teams, Webex, Skype, etc. How can you say there is no alternative?

desilentio 6y ago

Sorry, I didn't think in terms of degrees of untrustworthiness. What I miss is an open-source alternative. Doesn't Microsoft let the NSA tap into Skype calls?

acoard 6y ago
>Doesn't Microsoft let the NSA tap into Skype calls? Yes, but it seems like Skype was doing that prior to being acquired (though Microsoft seems to have accelerated things). From some quick Googling to refresh on PRISM – >• In July last year, nine months after Microsoft bought Skype, the NSA boasted that a new capability had tripled the amount of Skype video calls being collected through Prism; >• Microsoft helped the NSA to circumvent its encryption to address concerns that the agency would be unable to intercept web chats on the new Outlook.com portal; >Eight months before being bought by Microsoft, Skype joined the Prism program in February 2011. > According to the NSA documents, work had begun on smoothly integrating Skype into Prism in November 2010, but it was not until 4 February 2011 that the company was served with a directive to comply signed by the attorney general. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-...
- wolco2 6y ago
  Don't forget about teams.
bborud 6y ago
I wouldn't assume that any given service is secure just because it hasn't been outed yet. Your guess is as good as mine with regard to which service is more secure or less secure. What is immensely important is to raise the cost of lying to where it becomes something investors care about. The only real thing a company and its investors are afraid of is losing its customers. If we teach companies it is okay to lie by staying with them, they will lie more.
bo1024 6y ago
How about Jitsi? https://meet.jit.si/ https://meet.jit.si/ https://jitsi.org/ https://jitsi.org/
- mcrittenden 6y ago
  They said: "I got them to try Jitsi once, which simply didn't work."
  - bo1024 6y ago
    Ah thanks, I didn't see that was the same person higher up.
BlueTemplar 6y ago
There are at least half a dozen of open-source alternatives. Have you tried all of them ? For instance Big Blue Button : it's not perfect, because it's Canadian, it's hosted on Microsoft's Github, and might have some outstanding security issues [1], but I would probably still trust it more than Zoom or anything GAFAM. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigBlueButton#Security https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigBlueButton#Security

floatingatoll 6y ago

Each of those alternatives is just as likely to offer government wiretap support to any government that asks as Zoom is, unless I’ve missed statements of refusal to do so to the contrary from them.

baja_blast 6y ago
I think the concern is trade secret theft. Sure the US or EU might demand a wiretap but their goals are different. You don't see the CIA stealing trade secrets and handing them over to Apple or Microsoft. Businesses are primarily worried about their IP.
- BlueTemplar 6y ago
  That would probably be the NSA, and why would you expect them to NOT do industrial espionage ?
  - nix23 6y ago
    Well they do...it's not new: https://www.bbc.com/news/25907502 https://www.bbc.com/news/25907502

hackmiester 6y ago

Teams does not allow users to place themselves in breakout rooms. Webex does not allow Linux users to grant control of their screens. When you use these platforms all the time, you find these little issues. Generally speaking, Zoom does it best, despite their problems.

mensetmanusman 6y ago
You can set up channels in a ‘team’ and use those for breakouts.
- hackmiester 6y ago
  This would require all the attendees to be members of the team ahead of the meeting; this isn't how we use Zoom.
  - mensetmanusman 6y ago
    Ya, definitely requires more pre-planning, but maybe it’s still a hack that could be used. Just delete the ‘team’ afterwards. Maybe there is a way to automate this with some VB/Python script?

walrus01 6y ago

I know of more than one company where installing zoom on any company owned equipment, or using zoom on your own client devices for company business is a fireable offense. These are companies that deal with some very sensitive data.

jes5199 6y ago

never heard of these also-rans