5 ms·

Are you saying that facts should be suppressed because someone might use them the wrong way? Serious question.

by choko 6y ago

davrosthedalek 6y ago
Well, your personal information are facts too. Would you like them posted? As long as the crimes are only alleged, not proven, there is no question to me that the interest of the people at large is second to the privacy protection of the suspects.
mschuster91 6y ago
Journalism should report the relevant facts to a case. And the nationality/ethnicity/skin color rarely is a relevant fact in a criminal case, with the notable exception of racist-motivated or ethnic conflict (e.g. Kurds vs Turks) crimes. For "everyday" crimes, think of pub brawls, petty theft, robberies, sexual misconduct of all forms, the ethnicity is absolutely irrelevant and its mention by police/media is only likely to further racial hatred.
scotty79 6y ago
Would you like to also know if a perpetrator was left-handed or ginger or blood type A? No. Because that doesn't matter. Just as ethnicity doesn't matter. Criminal is a criminal.
- nmfisher 6y ago
  Governments are able to choose which nationalities are allowed entry via immigration policy. Some might find criminal representation very relevant to that policy decision. Perhaps you do not. That’s certainly your prerogative. But outright denying the relevance is absurd.
  - davrosthedalek 6y ago
    So make anonymized statistics about it. The nationality of any given individual who is alleged to have committed a crime, is not relevant.
    - nmfisher 6y ago
      That I agree with.
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      And newspapers should report on those statistics then? That’s probably a lot more explosive than reporting individual cases.
  - scotty79 6y ago
    I'm not claiming it itrelevant to law enforcement. It's irrelevant to (or shoudld be irrelevant to bon-racist) news recipient.
- refurb 6y ago
  But we're discussing an article that specifically calls out the researchers ethnicity and the fact they are immigrants. Or are you saying we should only talk about a person's ethnicity when it's in a positive light? Maybe this article should have just said "a German husband-and-wife dream team"?
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    > Or are you saying we should only talk about a person's ethnicity when it's in a positive light? Yes, because integration can only work when people have role models to look up to. This is also why (even if she's as "top cop" as it can get) the appointment of Kamala Harris is so important, or Barack Obama winning in 2008 - it is a "ceiling breaker" event, it shows to people that even if one is not part of the "usual old boys club" it is possible to achieve success. Painting ethnicity in a negative light, especially when it's totally unrelated and irrelevant, however was judged as "potentially inciting or furthering racial division" in German media codex.
  - davrosthedalek 6y ago
    If they wouldn't haven given an interview, or otherwise indicated that they want the world to know, it's nobodies business which nationality they are, or that they are husband and wife. It's simple as that.
- kreft 6y ago
  If it turns out left handed people are significantly overrepresented in crime statistics, then yes, that would be interesting to know. Either something is wrong with the system or with left handed people. This notion of withholding information from voting adults just because it doesn't further a particular social engineering agenda is repulsive to be honest.
  - davrosthedalek 6y ago
    Oh come on, your argument is self defeating. If doxxing individuals would be the only way for a voter to learn "if left handed people are significantly overrepresented", you would need to make all properties of everyone public, because there could be significant overrepresentation for any property. And if you already know that "left handed people are significantly overrepresented" from some other source, you don't have to make the information public for these cases -- you know it already. Probably from a proper statistic made by the government. Not by counting a media-reported incident also reported the person to be left-handed.
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      And your argument is a mix of a strawman and taking GP’s point ad absurdum. Not withholding information doesn’t equate to doxxing, and just because you can’t find out all the correlations doesn’t mean you shouldn’t even try to find any in the first place.

Are you saying that facts should be suppressed because someone might use them the wrong way? Serious question.

by choko 6y ago

Are you saying that facts should be suppressed because someone might use them the wrong way? Serious question.

Well, your personal information are facts too. Would you like them posted? As long as the crimes are only alleged, not proven, there is no question to me that the interest of the people at large is second to the privacy protection of the suspects.

mschuster91 6y ago

Journalism should report the relevant facts to a case. And the nationality/ethnicity/skin color rarely is a relevant fact in a criminal case, with the notable exception of racist-motivated or ethnic conflict (e.g. Kurds vs Turks) crimes. For "everyday" crimes, think of pub brawls, petty theft, robberies, sexual misconduct of all forms, the ethnicity is absolutely irrelevant and its mention by police/media is only likely to further racial hatred.

scotty79 6y ago

Would you like to also know if a perpetrator was left-handed or ginger or blood type A? No. Because that doesn't matter. Just as ethnicity doesn't matter. Criminal is a criminal.

nmfisher 6y ago
Governments are able to choose which nationalities are allowed entry via immigration policy. Some might find criminal representation very relevant to that policy decision. Perhaps you do not. That’s certainly your prerogative. But outright denying the relevance is absurd.
- davrosthedalek 6y ago
  So make anonymized statistics about it. The nationality of any given individual who is alleged to have committed a crime, is not relevant.
  - nmfisher 6y ago
    That I agree with.
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    And newspapers should report on those statistics then? That’s probably a lot more explosive than reporting individual cases.
- scotty79 6y ago
  I'm not claiming it itrelevant to law enforcement. It's irrelevant to (or shoudld be irrelevant to bon-racist) news recipient.
refurb 6y ago
But we're discussing an article that specifically calls out the researchers ethnicity and the fact they are immigrants. Or are you saying we should only talk about a person's ethnicity when it's in a positive light? Maybe this article should have just said "a German husband-and-wife dream team"?
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > Or are you saying we should only talk about a person's ethnicity when it's in a positive light? Yes, because integration can only work when people have role models to look up to. This is also why (even if she's as "top cop" as it can get) the appointment of Kamala Harris is so important, or Barack Obama winning in 2008 - it is a "ceiling breaker" event, it shows to people that even if one is not part of the "usual old boys club" it is possible to achieve success. Painting ethnicity in a negative light, especially when it's totally unrelated and irrelevant, however was judged as "potentially inciting or furthering racial division" in German media codex.
- davrosthedalek 6y ago
  If they wouldn't haven given an interview, or otherwise indicated that they want the world to know, it's nobodies business which nationality they are, or that they are husband and wife. It's simple as that.
kreft 6y ago
If it turns out left handed people are significantly overrepresented in crime statistics, then yes, that would be interesting to know. Either something is wrong with the system or with left handed people. This notion of withholding information from voting adults just because it doesn't further a particular social engineering agenda is repulsive to be honest.
- davrosthedalek 6y ago
  Oh come on, your argument is self defeating. If doxxing individuals would be the only way for a voter to learn "if left handed people are significantly overrepresented", you would need to make all properties of everyone public, because there could be significant overrepresentation for any property. And if you already know that "left handed people are significantly overrepresented" from some other source, you don't have to make the information public for these cases -- you know it already. Probably from a proper statistic made by the government. Not by counting a media-reported incident also reported the person to be left-handed.
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    And your argument is a mix of a strawman and taking GP’s point ad absurdum. Not withholding information doesn’t equate to doxxing, and just because you can’t find out all the correlations doesn’t mean you shouldn’t even try to find any in the first place.