5 ms·

That is news to me. German police and media normally go to great length not to mention names/personal information of suspects (and victims), a crass difference

That is news to me. German police and media normally go to great length not to mention names/personal information of suspects (and victims), a crass difference to the US.

mschuster91 6y ago
Until 2017 this actually was a rule (not a legally binding, just the "honor code") for media, but this got changed after the AfD and other Nazis whined for years that police and media would not "tell the truth" about migrant crimes, "suppress" or "hide" them (https://www.migazin.de/2017/03/24/presserat-aendert-richtlinie-zur-herkunftsnennung-bei-taetern/ https://www.migazin.de/2017/03/24/presserat-aendert-richtlin...). A very sad day for our society.
- davrosthedalek 6y ago
  Indeed. Every time the AfD is mentioned, I have to remember this: https://politicalbeauty.de/mahnmal.html https://politicalbeauty.de/mahnmal.html, and it makes it a little bit better.
- choko 6y ago
  Are you saying that facts should be suppressed because someone might use them the wrong way? Serious question.
  - davrosthedalek 6y ago
    Well, your personal information are facts too. Would you like them posted? As long as the crimes are only alleged, not proven, there is no question to me that the interest of the people at large is second to the privacy protection of the suspects.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    Journalism should report the relevant facts to a case. And the nationality/ethnicity/skin color rarely is a relevant fact in a criminal case, with the notable exception of racist-motivated or ethnic conflict (e.g. Kurds vs Turks) crimes. For "everyday" crimes, think of pub brawls, petty theft, robberies, sexual misconduct of all forms, the ethnicity is absolutely irrelevant and its mention by police/media is only likely to further racial hatred.
  - scotty79 6y ago
    Would you like to also know if a perpetrator was left-handed or ginger or blood type A? No. Because that doesn't matter. Just as ethnicity doesn't matter. Criminal is a criminal.
    - nmfisher 6y ago
      Governments are able to choose which nationalities are allowed entry via immigration policy. Some might find criminal representation very relevant to that policy decision. Perhaps you do not. That’s certainly your prerogative. But outright denying the relevance is absurd.
      - davrosthedalek 6y ago
        So make anonymized statistics about it. The nationality of any given individual who is alleged to have committed a crime, is not relevant.
        nmfisher 6y ago
        That I agree with.
        read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        And newspapers should report on those statistics then? That’s probably a lot more explosive than reporting individual cases.
      - scotty79 6y ago
        I'm not claiming it itrelevant to law enforcement. It's irrelevant to (or shoudld be irrelevant to bon-racist) news recipient.
    - refurb 6y ago
      But we're discussing an article that specifically calls out the researchers ethnicity and the fact they are immigrants. Or are you saying we should only talk about a person's ethnicity when it's in a positive light? Maybe this article should have just said "a German husband-and-wife dream team"?
_trampeltier 6y ago
Not personal information, but country of birth or nationality.
- davrosthedalek 6y ago
  Which is personal information. But I don't think they write it that often. The reverse has become a meme on right-wing forums: "tHeY dOn'T SaY tHere[sic] NAme so We NOw[sic] wHich RaCE iT Is".

That is news to me. German police and media normally go to great length not to mention names/personal information of suspects (and victims), a crass difference to the US.

mschuster91 6y ago

Until 2017 this actually was a rule (not a legally binding, just the "honor code") for media, but this got changed after the AfD and other Nazis whined for years that police and media would not "tell the truth" about migrant crimes, "suppress" or "hide" them (https://www.migazin.de/2017/03/24/presserat-aendert-richtlinie-zur-herkunftsnennung-bei-taetern/ https://www.migazin.de/2017/03/24/presserat-aendert-richtlin...). A very sad day for our society.

davrosthedalek 6y ago
Indeed. Every time the AfD is mentioned, I have to remember this: https://politicalbeauty.de/mahnmal.html https://politicalbeauty.de/mahnmal.html, and it makes it a little bit better.
choko 6y ago
Are you saying that facts should be suppressed because someone might use them the wrong way? Serious question.
- davrosthedalek 6y ago
  Well, your personal information are facts too. Would you like them posted? As long as the crimes are only alleged, not proven, there is no question to me that the interest of the people at large is second to the privacy protection of the suspects.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  Journalism should report the relevant facts to a case. And the nationality/ethnicity/skin color rarely is a relevant fact in a criminal case, with the notable exception of racist-motivated or ethnic conflict (e.g. Kurds vs Turks) crimes. For "everyday" crimes, think of pub brawls, petty theft, robberies, sexual misconduct of all forms, the ethnicity is absolutely irrelevant and its mention by police/media is only likely to further racial hatred.
- scotty79 6y ago
  Would you like to also know if a perpetrator was left-handed or ginger or blood type A? No. Because that doesn't matter. Just as ethnicity doesn't matter. Criminal is a criminal.
  - nmfisher 6y ago
    Governments are able to choose which nationalities are allowed entry via immigration policy. Some might find criminal representation very relevant to that policy decision. Perhaps you do not. That’s certainly your prerogative. But outright denying the relevance is absurd.
    - davrosthedalek 6y ago
      So make anonymized statistics about it. The nationality of any given individual who is alleged to have committed a crime, is not relevant.
      - nmfisher 6y ago
        That I agree with.
      - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        And newspapers should report on those statistics then? That’s probably a lot more explosive than reporting individual cases.
    - scotty79 6y ago
      I'm not claiming it itrelevant to law enforcement. It's irrelevant to (or shoudld be irrelevant to bon-racist) news recipient.
  - refurb 6y ago
    But we're discussing an article that specifically calls out the researchers ethnicity and the fact they are immigrants. Or are you saying we should only talk about a person's ethnicity when it's in a positive light? Maybe this article should have just said "a German husband-and-wife dream team"?

_trampeltier 6y ago

Not personal information, but country of birth or nationality.

davrosthedalek 6y ago
Which is personal information. But I don't think they write it that often. The reverse has become a meme on right-wing forums: "tHeY dOn'T SaY tHere[sic] NAme so We NOw[sic] wHich RaCE iT Is".