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Who defines "misinformation"? The mainstream media? "If the news are fake imagine history". People need to understand that NO ONE can define what is "misinfo

Who defines "misinformation"? The mainstream media? "If the news are fake imagine history". People need to understand that NO ONE can define what is "misinformation" because all sides have incentives to lie. This is purely thought policing.

iso1631 6y ago
I look out my window and see it's chucking it down I post "It's currently sunny where I live" That's misinformation.
- OneGuy123 6y ago
  To compare "its sunny but I said it's raining" and the media reporting complex is beyond stupid. How can you even compare? It's silly that there exist people in the modern age who still believe the news. And it's these lying news (who are private owned) who define "misinformation".
  - rorykoehler 6y ago
    I've seen enough people fall into this trap where they correctly identify the out of control corruption and destruction of our current economic system and therefore conclude that QAnon must be the objective truth. How they go from A to conclude B on this one? I have no idea. There-in lies the issue with all these disinformation campaigns. We live in hypernormal times and few are equipped to make sense of it.
    - OneGuy123 6y ago
      Strawman, I never mentioned QAnon. > We live in hypernormal times and few are equipped to make sense of it EDIT: no, there are not "few" equipped. Because no one knows who is lying NO ONE is equipped.
      - rorykoehler 6y ago
        Knowing that means you are equipped. I wasn't aiming the QAnon thing at you. I agree in general with your comments but know they must be qualified with the fact that you are discrediting all sources of information until you learn more. A healthy scepticism is essential to navigate this world.
- jfsanchez91 6y ago
  No. that's not misinformation, that's your perception.
OneGuy123 6y ago
Also I must say it's ironic that on a site with a bunch of programmers you still get downvoted for posting the fact that the media lies and that you cannot do anything other than laugh when the media decides to become "disinfo fact checkers". Do people really believe that when a company says "we will become independent fact checkers" that that is even possible? Did you learn nothing from your past experiences of what happens when a company says "we will become an independent fact checker, TRUST US, WE WILL NEVER LIE AND BE 100% HONEST AND OBJECTIVE".
- betwixthewires 6y ago
  I agree with you, except I don't see a down vote button anywhere on this site. But yes, generally, when a company promises to be your best buddy no strings attached it is time to get suspicious, and when someone believes them I begin to figure out if they're just naive or actually unintelligent.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    Why don't I see down arrows? There are no down arrows on stories. They appear on comments after users reach a certain karma threshold, but never on direct replies. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
  - input_sh 6y ago
    Just as an FYI, you need a certain amount of "karma" before you see the downvote button.
- rorykoehler 6y ago
  I'm pretty sure no one here thinks what you proposed. The issue is that those protesting are also claiming to have the objective truth when most likely their "truth" is even further removed from the object truth than the mainstream media's is.
  - aww_dang 6y ago
    I don't accept the premise that we are qualified to judge the veracity of another man's truth. Nor do all those who protest fit within your generalization of assuming to have an exclusive license on objective truth. There's a fair amount of people who simply like to bounce ideas around and have a discussion.
Traster 6y ago
Ok firstly, it's policing speech, not thought. Secondly, it's not policing it, it's basically putting a speed-bump. Thirdly, Twitter defines misinformation -it's their platform, they get to make that call. Also, people talk about "Fake news" from mainstream media, but actually, the examples of the mainstream media reporting literally incorreect information is pretty rare, and has real world consequences when it happens.
- betwixthewires 6y ago
  > Twitter defines misinformation -it's their platform, they get to make that call. Sure. But if they choose to do that, it is not a place where you can expect to share ideas and have real discussions with people. It becomes a place where perception is crafted, something those of us who actually want to use the internet as opposed to a TV channel are trying to avoid.
  - Traster 6y ago
    Sure it is. HN has a whole plethora of rules that are purely to the taste of the website owner, I can still have plenty of real discussions and share ideas. I understand there's limits to the discussion and if I want to discuss more extreme stuff I can go to other sites.
    - betwixthewires 6y ago
      The two sites are not equatable. One site has simple rules, don't fight, put effort into your posts, make sure your posts are interesting to engineers. And they're known beforehand. The other just decides halfway through any controversy how they are going to handle it and usually errs on the side of being heavy handed. There's no telling beforehand just by reading ToS what Twitter will do. I could probably say anything right now, and as long as I backed it up with data, or just thoughtfulness, I probably wouldn't be banned or censored here. I've never seen anything like that happen on this site. You can have free discussions here. You could, theoretically, have a free discussion on Twitter if you genuinely were not interested in discussing anything controversial. For most topics of disagreement though, on twitter you have to police your own speech.

iso1631 6y ago

I look out my window and see it's chucking it down I post "It's currently sunny where I live" That's misinformation.

OneGuy123 6y ago
To compare "its sunny but I said it's raining" and the media reporting complex is beyond stupid. How can you even compare? It's silly that there exist people in the modern age who still believe the news. And it's these lying news (who are private owned) who define "misinformation".
- rorykoehler 6y ago
  I've seen enough people fall into this trap where they correctly identify the out of control corruption and destruction of our current economic system and therefore conclude that QAnon must be the objective truth. How they go from A to conclude B on this one? I have no idea. There-in lies the issue with all these disinformation campaigns. We live in hypernormal times and few are equipped to make sense of it.
  - OneGuy123 6y ago
    Strawman, I never mentioned QAnon. > We live in hypernormal times and few are equipped to make sense of it EDIT: no, there are not "few" equipped. Because no one knows who is lying NO ONE is equipped.
    - rorykoehler 6y ago
      Knowing that means you are equipped. I wasn't aiming the QAnon thing at you. I agree in general with your comments but know they must be qualified with the fact that you are discrediting all sources of information until you learn more. A healthy scepticism is essential to navigate this world.
jfsanchez91 6y ago
No. that's not misinformation, that's your perception.

OneGuy123 6y ago

Also I must say it's ironic that on a site with a bunch of programmers you still get downvoted for posting the fact that the media lies and that you cannot do anything other than laugh when the media decides to become "disinfo fact checkers". Do people really believe that when a company says "we will become independent fact checkers" that that is even possible? Did you learn nothing from your past experiences of what happens when a company says "we will become an independent fact checker, TRUST US, WE WILL NEVER LIE AND BE 100% HONEST AND OBJECTIVE".

betwixthewires 6y ago
I agree with you, except I don't see a down vote button anywhere on this site. But yes, generally, when a company promises to be your best buddy no strings attached it is time to get suspicious, and when someone believes them I begin to figure out if they're just naive or actually unintelligent.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  Why don't I see down arrows? There are no down arrows on stories. They appear on comments after users reach a certain karma threshold, but never on direct replies. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
- input_sh 6y ago
  Just as an FYI, you need a certain amount of "karma" before you see the downvote button.
rorykoehler 6y ago
I'm pretty sure no one here thinks what you proposed. The issue is that those protesting are also claiming to have the objective truth when most likely their "truth" is even further removed from the object truth than the mainstream media's is.
- aww_dang 6y ago
  I don't accept the premise that we are qualified to judge the veracity of another man's truth. Nor do all those who protest fit within your generalization of assuming to have an exclusive license on objective truth. There's a fair amount of people who simply like to bounce ideas around and have a discussion.

Traster 6y ago

Ok firstly, it's policing speech, not thought. Secondly, it's not policing it, it's basically putting a speed-bump. Thirdly, Twitter defines misinformation -it's their platform, they get to make that call. Also, people talk about "Fake news" from mainstream media, but actually, the examples of the mainstream media reporting literally incorreect information is pretty rare, and has real world consequences when it happens.

betwixthewires 6y ago
> Twitter defines misinformation -it's their platform, they get to make that call. Sure. But if they choose to do that, it is not a place where you can expect to share ideas and have real discussions with people. It becomes a place where perception is crafted, something those of us who actually want to use the internet as opposed to a TV channel are trying to avoid.
- Traster 6y ago
  Sure it is. HN has a whole plethora of rules that are purely to the taste of the website owner, I can still have plenty of real discussions and share ideas. I understand there's limits to the discussion and if I want to discuss more extreme stuff I can go to other sites.
  - betwixthewires 6y ago
    The two sites are not equatable. One site has simple rules, don't fight, put effort into your posts, make sure your posts are interesting to engineers. And they're known beforehand. The other just decides halfway through any controversy how they are going to handle it and usually errs on the side of being heavy handed. There's no telling beforehand just by reading ToS what Twitter will do. I could probably say anything right now, and as long as I backed it up with data, or just thoughtfulness, I probably wouldn't be banned or censored here. I've never seen anything like that happen on this site. You can have free discussions here. You could, theoretically, have a free discussion on Twitter if you genuinely were not interested in discussing anything controversial. For most topics of disagreement though, on twitter you have to police your own speech.