9 ms·

EU hits Amazon with antitrust charges over merchant data

202 points by FLIINO 6y ago

Vosporos 6y ago
Godspeed!
rbinv 6y ago
Non-paywall: https://archive.is/VAECo https://archive.is/VAECo
ChuckNorris89 6y ago
When Google for monopoly of search, browsers and ads? When Apple for monopoly of iOS ecosystem(how can Spotify and others compete with Apple's own Music services)? When Facebook for monopoly on social media, VR and fake news? When Microsoft for ... can't think of anything right now, just felt the need to vent, maybe you guys can chip in.
- nabla9 6y ago
  Holding monopoly position in the market does not automatically violate laws. Exploiting that position does. Under Vestager EU has already fined Google for over 9.5 billion EUR. Three different cases. Facebook has also received regulatory fees over 100 million. There are more things underway. FB can avoid many fees by changing behaviour inside the EU. Spotify filed complaint against Apple in EU that mirrors the case in the US (it's about AppStore and 30% cut).
- 6510 6y ago
  You can fill a report and someone will actually look into it. This works because wording a technical issue is hard and few issues are filled. I just discovered my windows 10 box has been file sharing with the network for years. That I'm apparently not sophisticated enough to disable this in 10 min is quite one thing, that the desktop shows no indication of it is quite the other. The settings are hard to find. One would rarely just run into them. When you think you've disabled it doesn't mean it is disabled. Trying to convince MS seems pointless. I just send and email to https://edpb.europa.eu https://edpb.europa.eu
m463 6y ago
There are so many amazon products coming out of the pipeline. At first there were amazon batteries and hdmi cables. But now there are weird products like amazon gaming desks. It's not hard to imagine they said "we sell a lot of these" and made their own.
- niffydroid 6y ago
  Yeah and it's because of people like me. When there are 2 items, both pretty much the same, if not from the same factory. If one is sold directly by amazon then I'd pick that one over the third party. Why? It's so much easier to get a replacement/refund/return with amazon than third party sellers. If third parties are all selling the same thing then amazon can probably make more profit than the third party as well, so that's why amazon will also do it. Now I do wish Amazon would pay more tax etc etc, but people like me make it easy for them to operate and do things like this.
  - lm28469 6y ago
    You're already two steps too far to get out of the system. If all the choices you can imagine are "buy item #1 on amazon" or "buy similar item #2 on amazon" amazon already won
    - mytailorisrich 6y ago
      Amazon wins based on a superior product. I tend to behave like niffydroid for the same reson. From experience Amazon offers a superior experience and a superior service so that, everything being more or less equal, purchasing from Amazon is the safer option. This applied both when choosing among vendors on Amazon, and when choosing a marketplace website. Amazon my be blamed for many things, but not for delivering one of the best delivery and customer service.
  - JAlexoid 6y ago
    That's a bit different. You are making a decision based on services associated with the product, rather than "this one looks identical and is $2 cheaper". Which is a valid differentiator. But in the end it's not even about that. It's about Amazon not having to go through the cost of marketing(product development, placement, market analysis, etc) to then kick someone that did all of this.
ffpip 6y ago
Margrethe Vestager, the European commissioner who oversees competition, will announce formal antitrust charges against Amazon on Tuesday over how it uses data about the merchants on its platform, according to two people with knowledge of the announcement. The case focuses on the online retailer’s dual role, both as a marketplace for third-party vendors and also as a competitor which sells its own goods, these people said. The charge sheet, which is part of a probe that started nearly two years ago, fleshes out concerns that Amazon may be abusing its role by using the data it gathers on merchants to compete against them. Amazon declined to comment. In the past the company has played down antitrust concerns, noting that many retailers have their own private label offerings, and that online sales represent only a small sliver of the overall retail sector. Independent merchants are free to use some or all of Amazon’s services and can expand their reach and start selling online with limited initial investment, the company has noted. The European Commission did not immediately reply to a request for comment. Amazon’s business practices have been under scrutiny elsewhere in the EU and in the US. In 2018 the German antitrust watchdog launched a probe into its dual role as both marketplace for seller and seller of its own brands, looking into whether it used its market power to set illegal contract terms. In the US Amazon is part of a group of companies under scrutiny by the House Judiciary Committee. The Justice Department and the Federal Trade Commission have also launched antitrust probes against Amazon. The formal charges against Amazon will reinforce Ms Vestager’s reputation as a tough enforcer with an emphasis on tackling market rigging, consumer abuse and tax dodging. The Dane, who is serving her second term as competition commissioner, has led big battles against some of the biggest names in tech. Under her mandate, the EU has fined Google more than €8bn in three separate antitrust cases while Apple has been ordered to pay €13bn in back taxes to the Irish government. Both companies have appealed.
- dontcarethrow2 6y ago
  Why does this sound like a Skynet brief on the next target? Kudos to this amazing human. Makes the rest of us look horrible I know, we can at least show some support. Best of luck Ms Vestager!
  - DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
palashkulsh 6y ago
i have been wondering the same thing for quite some months,I live in india and have been using amazon for some time.Earlier amazon branded products were little, but now there are every type of amazon branded products. they have revenue data and order data or whats selling fast what is not. I think they are using that to leverage their inventory turnover.
- justinclift 6y ago
  Yes. There are both documented cases, and whistleblower leaks, of Amazon employees using their customers' sales data to launch competing products. How that'll go through the various legal proceedings though is anyone's guess.
cblconfederate 6y ago
That doesnt solve the problem though
farnulfo 6y ago
Official source : https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_19_4291 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_19_...
nickpp 6y ago
So it seems to me that they are accusing Amazon for something that is common practice for all big retailers: private label products. At this point, it is hard to believe EU is attacking big tech companies for anything else rather than the fact that they are American...
- ethanwillis 6y ago
  Retailers aren't marketplaces. They're retailers. Generally they're buying goods from manufacturers to stock their shelves. Amazon isn't doing that.
  - repsilat 6y ago
    Is that an important distinction? Near as I can tell the main differences are, - It's probably easier for merchants to sell in a marketplace than through a retailer, and - Suppliers probably get paid by retailers earlier than they get paid by marketplaces. Though neither point is necessarily true, and I'm not really sure there's a hard distinction to be made, and I'm not convinced any difference is morally important here. I could be wrong on any of those points though, and would be glad to hear why if I am.
    - gamblor956 6y ago
      It's a huge difference, and pretty much the heart of the matter: retailers pay for inventory, marketplaces do not. Of course if you ignore the primary distinguishing factor they look the same. It's like how a non techie can look at a laptop and call it an ipad.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25046673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25046673
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  The ludicrous claim that Europe's regulators are going after American companies can be easily dismissed by paying attention to Congress: Our own government has been asking questions about the same concerns about the same companies. The most significant difference though between our government and Europe's though is that Europe's is still functional. So when Europe is regulating our companies, we should realize they had to because we failed to do so ourselves.
02020202 6y ago
someone has to pay for the lockdowns, right :D
dredmorbius 6y ago
Altenate coverage, unpaywalled (or differently paywalled): E.U. antitrust regulators announce charges against Amazon, alleging unfair business practices https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/amazon-antitrust-charges-europe-eu-vestager/2020/11/10/88df3fca-233c-11eb-9c4a-0dc6242c4814_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/amazon-antitrust-charge... EU charges Amazon with anti-competitive action, opens second probe https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-amazon-com-antitrust-charges-idUKKBN27Q1LD https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-amazon-com-antitrust-c... EU files antitrust charges against Amazon over use of data https://apnews.com/article/international-news-europe-8e0222555df76c36bfbeed3289222d94 https://apnews.com/article/international-news-europe-8e02225... EU hits Amazon with antitrust charges. A huge fine could follow. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/eu-hits-amazon-with-antitrust-charges-a-huge-fine-could-follow/ar-BB1aS7dd https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/eu-hits-amazon-wit... Europe lays out antitrust case against Amazon's use of big data https://techcrunch.com/2020/11/10/europe-lays-out-antitrust-case-against-amazons-use-of-big-data/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/11/10/europe-lays-out-antitrust-... Amazon to Face EU Antitrust Complaint Over Sales Data https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-10/amazon-set-to-get-eu-antitrust-objections-over-sales-data https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-10/amazon-se... FT is often accessible via Archive.today: https:/archive.is/https://www.ft.com/content/4908995d-5ba4-4e14-a863-bcb8858e8bd2 https://www.ft.com/content/4908995d-5ba4-4e14-a863-bcb8858e8... (.fo, .md, .li, vn, .ph are alt TLDs).
mytailorisrich 6y ago
Directly from the EU commission's website: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_2077 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_... " Its rules should not artificially favour Amazon's own retail offers or advantage the offers of retailers using Amazon's logistics and delivery services " While I understand the objection to Amazon using non-public data from sellers in order to compete against them, it's more dubious to me why Amazon should not favour sellers that bring in more business, which seems to me to be quite standard practice across the board.
LanceH 6y ago
This sounds less like anti-trust than a conflict of interest violation. What law does that break? It feels like antitrust is being misused for lack of legislation banning this specifically.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  It's classic abuse of market power in one market to monopolize other markets; even in the US’s weaker antitrust regime, what is alleged here would be a colorable anti-trust claim.
32joiJI32 6y ago
Every corp. with total valuation above 200B$ should be divided into multiple corporations
Stephen-HotKing 6y ago
> "The investigation found that Amazon feeds non-public seller data, such as the number of products ordered and the sellers' revenues, into its own retail algorithms to help it decide which new products to launch and the price of each new offer, Vestager said on Tuesday." Yeah, how is this any different from any store launching in house brands for cheaper than name branded products? For example, CVS has blatantly copied half of Cerave's products for example. Furthermore, because of COVID Amazon's a big deal in most of Europe. Brick and mortar is hurting, city centers are pretty much deserted in all but larger cities. This could come as short sighted but seems like Germany and France are doing this because they want to shake down Amazon for more tax money and they don’t like that American companies are dominating European markets to such an extent.

202 points by FLIINO 6y ago

Vosporos 6y ago

Godspeed!

rbinv 6y ago

Non-paywall: https://archive.is/VAECo https://archive.is/VAECo

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

When Google for monopoly of search, browsers and ads? When Apple for monopoly of iOS ecosystem(how can Spotify and others compete with Apple's own Music services)? When Facebook for monopoly on social media, VR and fake news? When Microsoft for ... can't think of anything right now, just felt the need to vent, maybe you guys can chip in.

nabla9 6y ago
Holding monopoly position in the market does not automatically violate laws. Exploiting that position does. Under Vestager EU has already fined Google for over 9.5 billion EUR. Three different cases. Facebook has also received regulatory fees over 100 million. There are more things underway. FB can avoid many fees by changing behaviour inside the EU. Spotify filed complaint against Apple in EU that mirrors the case in the US (it's about AppStore and 30% cut).
6510 6y ago
You can fill a report and someone will actually look into it. This works because wording a technical issue is hard and few issues are filled. I just discovered my windows 10 box has been file sharing with the network for years. That I'm apparently not sophisticated enough to disable this in 10 min is quite one thing, that the desktop shows no indication of it is quite the other. The settings are hard to find. One would rarely just run into them. When you think you've disabled it doesn't mean it is disabled. Trying to convince MS seems pointless. I just send and email to https://edpb.europa.eu https://edpb.europa.eu

m463 6y ago

There are so many amazon products coming out of the pipeline. At first there were amazon batteries and hdmi cables. But now there are weird products like amazon gaming desks. It's not hard to imagine they said "we sell a lot of these" and made their own.

niffydroid 6y ago
Yeah and it's because of people like me. When there are 2 items, both pretty much the same, if not from the same factory. If one is sold directly by amazon then I'd pick that one over the third party. Why? It's so much easier to get a replacement/refund/return with amazon than third party sellers. If third parties are all selling the same thing then amazon can probably make more profit than the third party as well, so that's why amazon will also do it. Now I do wish Amazon would pay more tax etc etc, but people like me make it easy for them to operate and do things like this.
- lm28469 6y ago
  You're already two steps too far to get out of the system. If all the choices you can imagine are "buy item #1 on amazon" or "buy similar item #2 on amazon" amazon already won
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    Amazon wins based on a superior product. I tend to behave like niffydroid for the same reson. From experience Amazon offers a superior experience and a superior service so that, everything being more or less equal, purchasing from Amazon is the safer option. This applied both when choosing among vendors on Amazon, and when choosing a marketplace website. Amazon my be blamed for many things, but not for delivering one of the best delivery and customer service.
- JAlexoid 6y ago
  That's a bit different. You are making a decision based on services associated with the product, rather than "this one looks identical and is $2 cheaper". Which is a valid differentiator. But in the end it's not even about that. It's about Amazon not having to go through the cost of marketing(product development, placement, market analysis, etc) to then kick someone that did all of this.

ffpip 6y ago

Margrethe Vestager, the European commissioner who oversees competition, will announce formal antitrust charges against Amazon on Tuesday over how it uses data about the merchants on its platform, according to two people with knowledge of the announcement. The case focuses on the online retailer’s dual role, both as a marketplace for third-party vendors and also as a competitor which sells its own goods, these people said. The charge sheet, which is part of a probe that started nearly two years ago, fleshes out concerns that Amazon may be abusing its role by using the data it gathers on merchants to compete against them. Amazon declined to comment. In the past the company has played down antitrust concerns, noting that many retailers have their own private label offerings, and that online sales represent only a small sliver of the overall retail sector. Independent merchants are free to use some or all of Amazon’s services and can expand their reach and start selling online with limited initial investment, the company has noted. The European Commission did not immediately reply to a request for comment. Amazon’s business practices have been under scrutiny elsewhere in the EU and in the US. In 2018 the German antitrust watchdog launched a probe into its dual role as both marketplace for seller and seller of its own brands, looking into whether it used its market power to set illegal contract terms. In the US Amazon is part of a group of companies under scrutiny by the House Judiciary Committee. The Justice Department and the Federal Trade Commission have also launched antitrust probes against Amazon. The formal charges against Amazon will reinforce Ms Vestager’s reputation as a tough enforcer with an emphasis on tackling market rigging, consumer abuse and tax dodging. The Dane, who is serving her second term as competition commissioner, has led big battles against some of the biggest names in tech. Under her mandate, the EU has fined Google more than €8bn in three separate antitrust cases while Apple has been ordered to pay €13bn in back taxes to the Irish government. Both companies have appealed.

dontcarethrow2 6y ago
Why does this sound like a Skynet brief on the next target? Kudos to this amazing human. Makes the rest of us look horrible I know, we can at least show some support. Best of luck Ms Vestager!
- DaiPlusPlus 6y ago

palashkulsh 6y ago

i have been wondering the same thing for quite some months,I live in india and have been using amazon for some time.Earlier amazon branded products were little, but now there are every type of amazon branded products. they have revenue data and order data or whats selling fast what is not. I think they are using that to leverage their inventory turnover.

justinclift 6y ago
Yes. There are both documented cases, and whistleblower leaks, of Amazon employees using their customers' sales data to launch competing products. How that'll go through the various legal proceedings though is anyone's guess.

cblconfederate 6y ago

That doesnt solve the problem though

farnulfo 6y ago

Official source : https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_19_4291 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_19_...

nickpp 6y ago

So it seems to me that they are accusing Amazon for something that is common practice for all big retailers: private label products. At this point, it is hard to believe EU is attacking big tech companies for anything else rather than the fact that they are American...

ethanwillis 6y ago
Retailers aren't marketplaces. They're retailers. Generally they're buying goods from manufacturers to stock their shelves. Amazon isn't doing that.
- repsilat 6y ago
  Is that an important distinction? Near as I can tell the main differences are, - It's probably easier for merchants to sell in a marketplace than through a retailer, and - Suppliers probably get paid by retailers earlier than they get paid by marketplaces. Though neither point is necessarily true, and I'm not really sure there's a hard distinction to be made, and I'm not convinced any difference is morally important here. I could be wrong on any of those points though, and would be glad to hear why if I am.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    It's a huge difference, and pretty much the heart of the matter: retailers pay for inventory, marketplaces do not. Of course if you ignore the primary distinguishing factor they look the same. It's like how a non techie can look at a laptop and call it an ipad.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25046673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25046673
ocdtrekkie 6y ago
The ludicrous claim that Europe's regulators are going after American companies can be easily dismissed by paying attention to Congress: Our own government has been asking questions about the same concerns about the same companies. The most significant difference though between our government and Europe's though is that Europe's is still functional. So when Europe is regulating our companies, we should realize they had to because we failed to do so ourselves.

02020202 6y ago

someone has to pay for the lockdowns, right :D

dredmorbius 6y ago

Altenate coverage, unpaywalled (or differently paywalled): E.U. antitrust regulators announce charges against Amazon, alleging unfair business practices https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/amazon-antitrust-charges-europe-eu-vestager/2020/11/10/88df3fca-233c-11eb-9c4a-0dc6242c4814_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/amazon-antitrust-charge... EU charges Amazon with anti-competitive action, opens second probe https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-amazon-com-antitrust-charges-idUKKBN27Q1LD https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-amazon-com-antitrust-c... EU files antitrust charges against Amazon over use of data https://apnews.com/article/international-news-europe-8e0222555df76c36bfbeed3289222d94 https://apnews.com/article/international-news-europe-8e02225... EU hits Amazon with antitrust charges. A huge fine could follow. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/eu-hits-amazon-with-antitrust-charges-a-huge-fine-could-follow/ar-BB1aS7dd https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/eu-hits-amazon-wit... Europe lays out antitrust case against Amazon's use of big data https://techcrunch.com/2020/11/10/europe-lays-out-antitrust-case-against-amazons-use-of-big-data/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/11/10/europe-lays-out-antitrust-... Amazon to Face EU Antitrust Complaint Over Sales Data https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-10/amazon-set-to-get-eu-antitrust-objections-over-sales-data https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-10/amazon-se... FT is often accessible via Archive.today: https:/archive.is/https://www.ft.com/content/4908995d-5ba4-4e14-a863-bcb8858e8bd2 https://www.ft.com/content/4908995d-5ba4-4e14-a863-bcb8858e8... (.fo, .md, .li, vn, .ph are alt TLDs).

mytailorisrich 6y ago

Directly from the EU commission's website: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_2077 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_... " Its rules should not artificially favour Amazon's own retail offers or advantage the offers of retailers using Amazon's logistics and delivery services " While I understand the objection to Amazon using non-public data from sellers in order to compete against them, it's more dubious to me why Amazon should not favour sellers that bring in more business, which seems to me to be quite standard practice across the board.

LanceH 6y ago

This sounds less like anti-trust than a conflict of interest violation. What law does that break? It feels like antitrust is being misused for lack of legislation banning this specifically.

dragonwriter 6y ago
It's classic abuse of market power in one market to monopolize other markets; even in the US’s weaker antitrust regime, what is alleged here would be a colorable anti-trust claim.

32joiJI32 6y ago

Every corp. with total valuation above 200B$ should be divided into multiple corporations

Stephen-HotKing 6y ago

> "The investigation found that Amazon feeds non-public seller data, such as the number of products ordered and the sellers' revenues, into its own retail algorithms to help it decide which new products to launch and the price of each new offer, Vestager said on Tuesday." Yeah, how is this any different from any store launching in house brands for cheaper than name branded products? For example, CVS has blatantly copied half of Cerave's products for example. Furthermore, because of COVID Amazon's a big deal in most of Europe. Brick and mortar is hurting, city centers are pretty much deserted in all but larger cities. This could come as short sighted but seems like Germany and France are doing this because they want to shake down Amazon for more tax money and they don’t like that American companies are dominating European markets to such an extent.