> Who here can visualize an apple in their mind, literally seeing it as if existed and was being perceived by the eye (a sense organ)? Anybody who dreams when

> Who here can visualize an apple in their mind, literally seeing it as if existed and was being perceived by the eye (a sense organ)? Anybody who dreams when sleeping. Is that not everybody ? Ability to do it when awake (lucid dreaming) is a different thing. > lack of awareness equals lack of consciousness No it does not. I'd argue that even deep sleep or getting knocked out does not equal loss of consciousness. We can't tell, as consciousness is only perceived through it's contents, so we can't distinguish between absence of contents or absence of container. > Leave them closed long enough and you will lose what we are seeking to define here. Consciousness is not the model. It's where the model is built. You only mention perceptions, what about thoughts ?