6 ms·

How Apple's Moral Compass Works

32 points by VoxelBoy 15y ago

palish 15y ago
Since HN doesn't have a private messaging system... VoxelBoy, I noticed your username. I'm a graphics programmer --- I'd love to read about the type of stuff you've done, or simply chat. Have you looked into Sparse Voxel Octrees? Toss me an email (it's in my profile).
- VoxelBoy 15y ago
  Sure, I will. I'm currently doing game development with Unity and I haven't dabbled in self-contained graphics research. I would hazard that you know more about me when it comes to voxel data and rendering; regardless, it's a topic I'm very interested in. Aside: Voxatron by Lexaloffle is doing some cool things with voxels, check it out sometime.
  - andrewflnr 15y ago
    Do you know about the OSS game ForeverWar? http://foreverwar.sourceforge.net/ http://foreverwar.sourceforge.net/ It's not developed anymore, but even the demo is pretty fun, and it would be cool if you picked it up. Just an idea. :) Voxatron looks cool too.
r00fus 15y ago
Apple's moral compass is pretty much dictated by image, especially amongst the userbase of it's products. As far as I can surmise, an app would be banned if: * it would offend a large potential group of customers * it offends even a moderate but vocal set of existing customers * it spews and/or supports the spewing of FUD * it makes the iPhone or Apple look bad All in all, these are pretty easy to guess guidelines. They're also very geared towards keeping and attracting customers, and thus, the bottom line.
- trythis3 15y ago
  Alternatively, the company is run by a comparatively moralistic CEO. Apple and Steve Jobs are not as superficial as their many detractors accuse them of being. In fact, they're among the least superficial entities in the business.
  - TomOfTTB 15y ago
    Would this be the same CEO that would fire people if they couldn't justify their job in an elevator ride? Or the Steve Jobs who denied his daughter's existence until it was painfully clear she was his (going so far as to force her mother onto welfare because he refused to support her)? Or are you talking about the Steve Jobs who paid lip service to improving conditions at Foxconn while not forcing them to improve anything (I think there's been 3 suicides so far this year)? I own Apple products, I love my Apple products, I love Steve Jobs' talent for creating them. But let's hold off on beautifying the man shall we?
    - jrockway 15y ago
      But he wears a turtleneck and jeans and says stuff like "one more thing."
    - thaumaturgy 15y ago
      It's kind of a bummer that you included the Foxconn example, considering that there have been several articles pointing out that Foxconn is huge and, statistically speaking, they have a lower suicide rate than the national average. In other words, working at Foxconn makes you less likely to commit suicide! That example kind of casts doubt on the others, which I hadn't heard of before (but wouldn't be surprised by, either).
      - TomOfTTB 15y ago
        On the other claims are you capable of using Google? If you had the time to post this you should have the time to verify the data for your own piece of mind. As far as Foxconn the company is huge but 30 suicide attempts in 3 weeks is not normal (http://gizmodo.com/#!5540045/foxconn-suicide-cluster-claims-another-victim http://gizmodo.com/#!5540045/foxconn-suicide-cluster-claims-...). China only has a .02% suicide rate and most are in the rural areas (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-09/11/content_6095710.htm http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-09/11/content_609571...). That's 1 (Edit: I meant 1,000 here) in every 5 million people killing themselves. Foxconn has 950,000 employees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn) and 30 suicide attempts in 3 weeks!
trythis3 15y ago
They view the App Store as, well, a store. Just like virtually any other store, online or off, they restrict what they choose to sell. Ordinarily this isn't controversial, but for the fact that in Apple's case, the App Store is the only way to get native apps. This sentence > Apple has complete control over the kind of information you can get on your phone, and it exercises that right seemingly capriciously. is just blatantly wrong, of course. It only has (near) complete control over the native apps you can get on your phone. There are several other obvious channels of information that it does not control.
GHFigs 15y ago
tl;dr: professional-grade trolling
- jrockway 15y ago
  tl;dr: not everything critical of Apple is trolling.
  - GHFigs 15y ago
    I didn't say it was. But are you going to defend shit like this? "And ultimately, Apple just wants people to keep calling, even if tumors are growing in their heads."
mason55 15y ago
There is really nothing insightful in this article. It's a list of a few banned apps and them throwing up their hands saying "who knows!?"
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
edderly 15y ago
Why Apple doesn't use some kind of MPAA style rating system? That isn't without it's politics, but at least it gives a flavor how to deal with publication of different categories of material.
- zalew 15y ago
  not a good example. MPAA is evil, their rating system is subjective and their commitee members' bios are in condradiction to their own rules. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPQmKTAAeik&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPQmKTAAeik&feature=relat...
  - SoftwareMaven 15y ago
    So you are saying Apple does use something like the MPAA ratings... * Posted from my iPad...
michaelpinto 15y ago
I the iPad as a videogame platform — that means their peers are really Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft with the Xbox. But unlike the later two Apple is really going for the home market, i.e. marketing to a family (just like Disney). With that in mind Apple is really closer to being Nintendo than anything else — so if you think in those terms they're in fact very open with what they allow into their store. Also I've never known Apple to tout the idea that "we're open" or even that "we do no evil". So I think in that way they're a bit more honest.
aj700 15y ago
The metric seems simple. It's not just Apple that's affected by the way the media find it ver easy to whip up a storm / moral panic / or as the article says "riots"... If the decision to allow something will get us on Fox News, don't do it. The media and political class are only allowed two positions on anything. Completely against or completely encouraging. Drugs. Infanticide etc. If you fail to condemn or block it, you're encouraging it. If you fail to encourage it, you're blocking it. Of course, when you spend less than any other industrialised country on education, you get a populous for whom everything is black and white.

32 points by VoxelBoy 15y ago

Since HN doesn't have a private messaging system... VoxelBoy, I noticed your username. I'm a graphics programmer --- I'd love to read about the type of stuff you've done, or simply chat. Have you looked into Sparse Voxel Octrees? Toss me an email (it's in my profile).

VoxelBoy 15y ago
Sure, I will. I'm currently doing game development with Unity and I haven't dabbled in self-contained graphics research. I would hazard that you know more about me when it comes to voxel data and rendering; regardless, it's a topic I'm very interested in. Aside: Voxatron by Lexaloffle is doing some cool things with voxels, check it out sometime.
- andrewflnr 15y ago
  Do you know about the OSS game ForeverWar? http://foreverwar.sourceforge.net/ http://foreverwar.sourceforge.net/ It's not developed anymore, but even the demo is pretty fun, and it would be cool if you picked it up. Just an idea. :) Voxatron looks cool too.

r00fus 15y ago

Apple's moral compass is pretty much dictated by image, especially amongst the userbase of it's products. As far as I can surmise, an app would be banned if: * it would offend a large potential group of customers * it offends even a moderate but vocal set of existing customers * it spews and/or supports the spewing of FUD * it makes the iPhone or Apple look bad All in all, these are pretty easy to guess guidelines. They're also very geared towards keeping and attracting customers, and thus, the bottom line.

trythis3 15y ago
Alternatively, the company is run by a comparatively moralistic CEO. Apple and Steve Jobs are not as superficial as their many detractors accuse them of being. In fact, they're among the least superficial entities in the business.
- TomOfTTB 15y ago
  Would this be the same CEO that would fire people if they couldn't justify their job in an elevator ride? Or the Steve Jobs who denied his daughter's existence until it was painfully clear she was his (going so far as to force her mother onto welfare because he refused to support her)? Or are you talking about the Steve Jobs who paid lip service to improving conditions at Foxconn while not forcing them to improve anything (I think there's been 3 suicides so far this year)? I own Apple products, I love my Apple products, I love Steve Jobs' talent for creating them. But let's hold off on beautifying the man shall we?
  - jrockway 15y ago
    But he wears a turtleneck and jeans and says stuff like "one more thing."
  - thaumaturgy 15y ago
    It's kind of a bummer that you included the Foxconn example, considering that there have been several articles pointing out that Foxconn is huge and, statistically speaking, they have a lower suicide rate than the national average. In other words, working at Foxconn makes you less likely to commit suicide! That example kind of casts doubt on the others, which I hadn't heard of before (but wouldn't be surprised by, either).
    - TomOfTTB 15y ago
      On the other claims are you capable of using Google? If you had the time to post this you should have the time to verify the data for your own piece of mind. As far as Foxconn the company is huge but 30 suicide attempts in 3 weeks is not normal (http://gizmodo.com/#!5540045/foxconn-suicide-cluster-claims-another-victim http://gizmodo.com/#!5540045/foxconn-suicide-cluster-claims-...). China only has a .02% suicide rate and most are in the rural areas (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-09/11/content_6095710.htm http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-09/11/content_609571...). That's 1 (Edit: I meant 1,000 here) in every 5 million people killing themselves. Foxconn has 950,000 employees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn) and 30 suicide attempts in 3 weeks!

trythis3 15y ago

They view the App Store as, well, a store. Just like virtually any other store, online or off, they restrict what they choose to sell. Ordinarily this isn't controversial, but for the fact that in Apple's case, the App Store is the only way to get native apps. This sentence > Apple has complete control over the kind of information you can get on your phone, and it exercises that right seemingly capriciously. is just blatantly wrong, of course. It only has (near) complete control over the native apps you can get on your phone. There are several other obvious channels of information that it does not control.

GHFigs 15y ago

tl;dr: professional-grade trolling

jrockway 15y ago
tl;dr: not everything critical of Apple is trolling.
- GHFigs 15y ago
  I didn't say it was. But are you going to defend shit like this? "And ultimately, Apple just wants people to keep calling, even if tumors are growing in their heads."

mason55 15y ago

There is really nothing insightful in this article. It's a list of a few banned apps and them throwing up their hands saying "who knows!?"

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

edderly 15y ago

Why Apple doesn't use some kind of MPAA style rating system? That isn't without it's politics, but at least it gives a flavor how to deal with publication of different categories of material.

zalew 15y ago
not a good example. MPAA is evil, their rating system is subjective and their commitee members' bios are in condradiction to their own rules. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPQmKTAAeik&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPQmKTAAeik&feature=relat...
- SoftwareMaven 15y ago
  So you are saying Apple does use something like the MPAA ratings... * Posted from my iPad...

michaelpinto 15y ago

I the iPad as a videogame platform — that means their peers are really Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft with the Xbox. But unlike the later two Apple is really going for the home market, i.e. marketing to a family (just like Disney). With that in mind Apple is really closer to being Nintendo than anything else — so if you think in those terms they're in fact very open with what they allow into their store. Also I've never known Apple to tout the idea that "we're open" or even that "we do no evil". So I think in that way they're a bit more honest.

aj700 15y ago

The metric seems simple. It's not just Apple that's affected by the way the media find it ver easy to whip up a storm / moral panic / or as the article says "riots"... If the decision to allow something will get us on Fox News, don't do it. The media and political class are only allowed two positions on anything. Completely against or completely encouraging. Drugs. Infanticide etc. If you fail to condemn or block it, you're encouraging it. If you fail to encourage it, you're blocking it. Of course, when you spend less than any other industrialised country on education, you get a populous for whom everything is black and white.