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Defining consciousness will come down to doing so simply. Consciousness is emergent given lack of awareness equals lack of consciousness, especially when the la

Defining consciousness will come down to doing so simply. Consciousness is emergent given lack of awareness equals lack of consciousness, especially when the lack of awareness is extended to seeing and hearing, or not. Consciousness emerges from awareness of objects, vision, hearing, thinking mind. Who here can visualize an apple in their mind, literally seeing it as if existed and was being perceived by the eye (a sense organ)? Who can't? The answer will vary from person to person. I know what some have said, given I've asked 100s of people this question because I don't form internal imagery. Even though some don't have that mind's eye view, it would seem most of us do build an internal model, similar to the apple, of the world around us, which is built from sensed information. Some of the people I've talked to can put "extra" things in that model. Dots on the wall. Boxes on tables. If it can be updated, it must exist in mind and it is likely to exist in mind in a similar way for many, at least for us to all agree we seem to have similar experiences and see the world in similar ways. Similar to an internal biological version of Unity, our eyes, ears, nose, taste and touch/feeling come together to create a sort of reality rendering "camera obscura" in the mind, allowing us to judge and interact with our perceived environment, through the copy we create of it. Close your eyes, and the model fades (at least for most). Leave them closed long enough and you will lose what we are seeking to define here.

arnoooooo 6y ago
> Who here can visualize an apple in their mind, literally seeing it as if existed and was being perceived by the eye (a sense organ)? Anybody who dreams when sleeping. Is that not everybody ? Ability to do it when awake (lucid dreaming) is a different thing. > lack of awareness equals lack of consciousness No it does not. I'd argue that even deep sleep or getting knocked out does not equal loss of consciousness. We can't tell, as consciousness is only perceived through it's contents, so we can't distinguish between absence of contents or absence of container. > Leave them closed long enough and you will lose what we are seeking to define here. Consciousness is not the model. It's where the model is built. You only mention perceptions, what about thoughts ?
ncmncm 6y ago
> Who here can visualize an apple in their mind, literally seeing it as if existed and was being perceived by the eye (a sense organ)? Everyone. What you think you are seeing as a whole is your hallucination based on fragmentary sensory input. Same for everything else you think you see around you. Doing it without corresponding sensory input requires practice, drugs, sleep, unusual brain development, or other techniques, because hallucinating things not there is suppressed for obvious reasons. When that suppression fails, we see things not there, such as Elvis on a piece of toast.

arnoooooo 6y ago

> Who here can visualize an apple in their mind, literally seeing it as if existed and was being perceived by the eye (a sense organ)? Anybody who dreams when sleeping. Is that not everybody ? Ability to do it when awake (lucid dreaming) is a different thing. > lack of awareness equals lack of consciousness No it does not. I'd argue that even deep sleep or getting knocked out does not equal loss of consciousness. We can't tell, as consciousness is only perceived through it's contents, so we can't distinguish between absence of contents or absence of container. > Leave them closed long enough and you will lose what we are seeking to define here. Consciousness is not the model. It's where the model is built. You only mention perceptions, what about thoughts ?

ncmncm 6y ago

> Who here can visualize an apple in their mind, literally seeing it as if existed and was being perceived by the eye (a sense organ)? Everyone. What you think you are seeing as a whole is your hallucination based on fragmentary sensory input. Same for everything else you think you see around you. Doing it without corresponding sensory input requires practice, drugs, sleep, unusual brain development, or other techniques, because hallucinating things not there is suppressed for obvious reasons. When that suppression fails, we see things not there, such as Elvis on a piece of toast.