10 ms·

>Make the lion vegan to complete the circle. 1. Lions are obligate carnivores, we're not. We do not need meat to survive (evidenced by several cultures around

by adtac 6y ago

>Make the lion vegan to complete the circle. 1. Lions are obligate carnivores, we're not. We do not need meat to survive (evidenced by several cultures around the world living off a nearly entirely plant-based diet for centuries), lions do. 2. What animals do isn't a good moral compass. Animals rape each other, steal, kill their children, and do all sorts of morally reprehensible stuff. >Some animals are abused and we can work on regulation to prevent that The best solution to stopping animal abuse is to not breed the animal in the first place. Can't abuse something that doesn't exist now, can we? >I don't think making sure cows die by old age should be the end goal. I never proposed that. I said we shouldn't have bred them into this miserable existence in the first place. Why do we get to decide how long a cow should live? Why do we get to artificially inseminate a cow that cannot possibly give consent? Why do we get to take away the newborn child of a defenceless creature? Come on.

realisticeater 6y ago
How about because I don't care about it that much? Sometimes good food involves suffering. I'm glad we're at the top of the food chain. I'm not about to give up my steak, I'm not about to give up my cheese, I'm certainly not about to give up my foie gras. I don't think we should go out of our way to hurt animals (for example intensive chicken production where you have overcrowded operations where chickens stay in the dark, etc, should be outlawed), but if I want to eat it I'll eat it. The cow need not consent, because it's my food. Fundamentally it's simply not a moral issue to me, it's a gastronomic one. I believe most people agree with me. Vegans are so incredibly out of touch. PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals.
- adtac 6y ago
  I mean, if you see the footage of what goes on in slaughter houses and then still think momentary sensory pleasure (taste) is more important to you than the life of a sentient being, you're just a sociopath. Do you also believe it is okay for me to torture a dog just because I get visual satisfaction from it? >Vegans are so incredibly out of touch. really? lol ok
  - realisticeater 6y ago
    I'm fully aware of what happens in slaughterhouses. I would be more than willing to pay for more expensive meat where the animals have more space for them, or eat proper grass, as opposed to, let's say, having corn shoved into them and antibiotics to suppress persistent infections, etc. The meat is tastier that way, too. > you're just a sociopath Sure, according to your definition I would be. So would most people, billions of them. > Do you also believe it is okay for me to torture a dog just because I get visual satisfaction from it? Visual satisfaction? No. But if you want to slaughter and eat it I don't have a problem with that. > really? lol ok Yes, really. You come across as some sort of quixotean person yelling at windmills while most of us over here are just eating our meat. It's simply that people don't say it, out of politeness.
- sweetheart 6y ago
  > Sometimes good food involves suffering It never needs to. You're performing mental gymnastics, I'm sorry. It's never true that this sort of immense suffering just needs to magical occur for the world to operate normally. There are limitless delicious recipes that require 0 suffering, 0 pain, 0 murder. > I don't think we should go out of our way to hurt animals That's what the entirety of animal agriculture is. We go WAAAY out of our way. It's expensive, inefficient, unhealthy, and immoral, and we do it anyway.
  - sc4les 6y ago
    "I don't care but looking at pictures it doesn't feel right" yeah the classical it's-ok-as-long-as-I-don't-think-about-it attitude
    - realisticeater 6y ago
      Oh I've seen plenty of pictures and videos and whatnot. I've slaughtered plenty of animals myself (though never a cow, to be honest). I'm not looking away and pretending it doesn't exist. I'm staring at it and saying "yes I approve of that because I like to eat animals". If your argument is that intensive farming is less than ideal, sure, I agree. If your argument is that the solution to that is to stop eating meat, that's where you lose me.
      - sc4les 6y ago
        That’s saying “I want change but I don’t want to change”
        thefounder 6y ago
        Not really. Just because you enjoy a good steak doesn't mean you agree to torture the animal. Also "happy" animals seem to have better taste so it's a win win. https://www.vice.com/en/article/8q8984/why-animals-that-died-scared-taste-bad https://www.vice.com/en/article/8q8984/why-animals-that-died...
thefounder 6y ago
>> 2. What animals do isn't a good moral compass. Animals rape each other, Neither what humans do is a compass for animals's behaviour. You know that cows are not humans, right? There is not much consent in their social life. We can work to offer them a "good" peaceful life before a quick innevitable slaughter. Not all the farmers cage their animals. Some of them live a pretty good life eating good grass and breathing fresher air than most humans do. As long as the lifespan of a cow is concerned what difference does it make if it lives 5 years or 20 years? Eventually you have to accept that death is innevitable for animals, insects, plants and humans alike. Eventuall you will end up death too, get eaten by "disgusting" worms. You also seem to favor no life at all than a short span? Would you prefer not to be born if you were to know your life will end up tragic (i.e in car crash, or eaten by a lion)?

by adtac 6y ago

realisticeater 6y ago

How about because I don't care about it that much? Sometimes good food involves suffering. I'm glad we're at the top of the food chain. I'm not about to give up my steak, I'm not about to give up my cheese, I'm certainly not about to give up my foie gras. I don't think we should go out of our way to hurt animals (for example intensive chicken production where you have overcrowded operations where chickens stay in the dark, etc, should be outlawed), but if I want to eat it I'll eat it. The cow need not consent, because it's my food. Fundamentally it's simply not a moral issue to me, it's a gastronomic one. I believe most people agree with me. Vegans are so incredibly out of touch. PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals.

adtac 6y ago
I mean, if you see the footage of what goes on in slaughter houses and then still think momentary sensory pleasure (taste) is more important to you than the life of a sentient being, you're just a sociopath. Do you also believe it is okay for me to torture a dog just because I get visual satisfaction from it? >Vegans are so incredibly out of touch. really? lol ok
- realisticeater 6y ago
  I'm fully aware of what happens in slaughterhouses. I would be more than willing to pay for more expensive meat where the animals have more space for them, or eat proper grass, as opposed to, let's say, having corn shoved into them and antibiotics to suppress persistent infections, etc. The meat is tastier that way, too. > you're just a sociopath Sure, according to your definition I would be. So would most people, billions of them. > Do you also believe it is okay for me to torture a dog just because I get visual satisfaction from it? Visual satisfaction? No. But if you want to slaughter and eat it I don't have a problem with that. > really? lol ok Yes, really. You come across as some sort of quixotean person yelling at windmills while most of us over here are just eating our meat. It's simply that people don't say it, out of politeness.
sweetheart 6y ago
> Sometimes good food involves suffering It never needs to. You're performing mental gymnastics, I'm sorry. It's never true that this sort of immense suffering just needs to magical occur for the world to operate normally. There are limitless delicious recipes that require 0 suffering, 0 pain, 0 murder. > I don't think we should go out of our way to hurt animals That's what the entirety of animal agriculture is. We go WAAAY out of our way. It's expensive, inefficient, unhealthy, and immoral, and we do it anyway.
- sc4les 6y ago
  "I don't care but looking at pictures it doesn't feel right" yeah the classical it's-ok-as-long-as-I-don't-think-about-it attitude
  - realisticeater 6y ago
    Oh I've seen plenty of pictures and videos and whatnot. I've slaughtered plenty of animals myself (though never a cow, to be honest). I'm not looking away and pretending it doesn't exist. I'm staring at it and saying "yes I approve of that because I like to eat animals". If your argument is that intensive farming is less than ideal, sure, I agree. If your argument is that the solution to that is to stop eating meat, that's where you lose me.
    - sc4les 6y ago
      That’s saying “I want change but I don’t want to change”
      - thefounder 6y ago
        Not really. Just because you enjoy a good steak doesn't mean you agree to torture the animal. Also "happy" animals seem to have better taste so it's a win win. https://www.vice.com/en/article/8q8984/why-animals-that-died-scared-taste-bad https://www.vice.com/en/article/8q8984/why-animals-that-died...

thefounder 6y ago

>> 2. What animals do isn't a good moral compass. Animals rape each other, Neither what humans do is a compass for animals's behaviour. You know that cows are not humans, right? There is not much consent in their social life. We can work to offer them a "good" peaceful life before a quick innevitable slaughter. Not all the farmers cage their animals. Some of them live a pretty good life eating good grass and breathing fresher air than most humans do. As long as the lifespan of a cow is concerned what difference does it make if it lives 5 years or 20 years? Eventually you have to accept that death is innevitable for animals, insects, plants and humans alike. Eventuall you will end up death too, get eaten by "disgusting" worms. You also seem to favor no life at all than a short span? Would you prefer not to be born if you were to know your life will end up tragic (i.e in car crash, or eaten by a lion)?