3 ms·

Well, if you take the time to learn about dairy farming (even in free range dairy farms), you would quickly find out that cows have a natural lifespan of ~20 ye

by moab 6y ago

Well, if you take the time to learn about dairy farming (even in free range dairy farms), you would quickly find out that cows have a natural lifespan of ~20 years, but cows used in dairy farms have an average lifespan of ~6 years. From the perspective of giving entities that we believe are probably conscious and probably feel suffering and pain a fair chance at life, minimizing the amount of dairy and cheese we consume would seem like a good idea. I'm looking forward to a world where lab-grown cheese substitutes are as good as (or better) than the real thing.

amanaplanacanal 6y ago
> a fair chance at life If you eliminate meat and dairy, those animals won’t have any life at all. The only reason they are there is because humans eat them.
- sc4les 6y ago
  Haha what. So it's okay to have dog fights since the dogs wouldn't be born otherwise? That's such a weird argument
  - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
    I quoted the part I was responding to. I wasn’t making any argument about the larger question as to whether keeping animals is moral.
- moab 6y ago
  I am sure we would still have some number of dairy cows like the lovely highland cows that this person takes care of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmBYs53quP8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmBYs53quP8 Their population would be greatly reduced, but is having a billion consciousnesses in a mediocre state and potentially suffering somehow better than having a few orders of magnitude fewer consciousnesses that are properly cared for and living more "natural" lives? It is hard to say without getting into the details, but from a high-level utilitarian perspective, one feels that the latter is somehow more preferable, although doing any kind of arithmetic with souls is a risky business.
- sunwukung 6y ago
  not much of a life really is it? That aside, it would make room for the non-livestock animals to live on the planet, reintroduce some biodiversity and create genetic firewalls to stop pandemics going absolutely buckwild.

by moab 6y ago

amanaplanacanal 6y ago

> a fair chance at life If you eliminate meat and dairy, those animals won’t have any life at all. The only reason they are there is because humans eat them.

sc4les 6y ago
Haha what. So it's okay to have dog fights since the dogs wouldn't be born otherwise? That's such a weird argument
- amanaplanacanal 6y ago
  I quoted the part I was responding to. I wasn’t making any argument about the larger question as to whether keeping animals is moral.
moab 6y ago
I am sure we would still have some number of dairy cows like the lovely highland cows that this person takes care of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmBYs53quP8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmBYs53quP8 Their population would be greatly reduced, but is having a billion consciousnesses in a mediocre state and potentially suffering somehow better than having a few orders of magnitude fewer consciousnesses that are properly cared for and living more "natural" lives? It is hard to say without getting into the details, but from a high-level utilitarian perspective, one feels that the latter is somehow more preferable, although doing any kind of arithmetic with souls is a risky business.
sunwukung 6y ago
not much of a life really is it? That aside, it would make room for the non-livestock animals to live on the planet, reintroduce some biodiversity and create genetic firewalls to stop pandemics going absolutely buckwild.