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Not so fast with the health talk. Vegetable oils are most likely carcinogenic, amid other health issues (GI, heart) [0]. Red meat is not [1] Further, these fa

Not so fast with the health talk. Vegetable oils are most likely carcinogenic, amid other health issues (GI, heart) [0]. Red meat is not [1] Further, these fake meats, Impossible Burger namely, have been linked to kidney failure in mice studies [2] (one commissioned by the Impossible Foods manufacturer). In particular: " * A rat feeding study commissioned by the manufacturer Impossible Foods found that rats fed SLH [soy leghemoglobin] developed unexplained changes in weight gain, changes in the blood that can indicate the onset of inflammation or kidney disease, and possible signs of anemia * Impossible Foods dismissed these statistically significant effects as “non-adverse” or as having “no toxicological relevance” " I understand these aren't as good test subjects as human studies, however it seems under the guise of the green movement, this evidence has been willfully ignored, or just not known. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. [0] - https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/why-vegetable-oils-are-carcinogenic https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/why-vegetable-oils-are... [1] - https://www.theguardian.com/food/2019/sep/30/research-red-meat-poses-no-health-risk https://www.theguardian.com/food/2019/sep/30/research-red-me... [2] - https://www.gmoscience.org/rat-feeding-studies-suggest-the-impossible-burger-may-not-be-safe-to-eat/ https://www.gmoscience.org/rat-feeding-studies-suggest-the-i...

thorwasdfasdf 6y ago
Yes, oils are pretty bad for you but Red meat is a class 2 carcinogen. So, neither are good for you.
- msandford 6y ago
  According to the WHO class 2 is "probably carcinogenic" and what was effectively a meta (or meta-meta) analysis showed that the increased risk was 18%. Do we know how bad vegetable oils are for people yet? Is there any reason to think that they're 100% A-OK? Humans have been eating meat for 10s or 100s of thousands if not millions of years. Humans have been eating highly refined vegetable and seed oils for what, a couple of hundred? One of these food sources helped turn apes into humans. The other didn't even exist until humans invented a LOT of technology.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    I think a few hundred years is long enough that if there's any sort of clear signal that they cause cancer, it's going to be visible.
    - rangoon626 6y ago
      One wonders why cancer rates continue to climb
      - taffer 6y ago
        Easy: People are getting older. Older people have a higher risk of getting cancer.
      - ornornor 6y ago
        We’re getting older and much better at detecting cancer, most likely.
        rangoon626 6y ago
        Or, the amount of industrial chemicals that os entering our food supply is... toxic.
  - manishsharan 6y ago
    >>Humans have been eating meat for 10s or 100s of thousands if not millions of years. Technically that may be true but humans only ate meat when the hunt was successful. Most of the time , they had a plant based diet. Meat has always been unaffordable luxury for most peole. The farm grown , tax subsidixzed, growth hormone loaded meat industry is a rather new phenomenon.
    - dasudasu 6y ago
      Humans might have been eating a lot more meat in the past when they were hunter-gatherers: it's just that their entire existence was centered around getting that food. Look at Inuits and how little plant based food they consumed.
mike_d 6y ago
I don't remember the exact details, but the study found that after X days of eating Impossible Burgers mice suffered serious health side effects. So what did they do? Ran another study for X/2 days and resubmitted to the FDA.
- martinpw 6y ago
  You really need to have something more verifiable than that before just throwing around a claim like that. What study are you talking about? You could at least try and find a link.
  - dbetteridge 6y ago
    That would imply such a link exists, seems to be a lot of complete nonsense being thrown around in this thread around nutrition and food.
telchar 6y ago
To be fair, your first link doesn't say that vegerable oils are bad for you. It just says that the Omega-6 fatty acids in them, if not balanced out by additional Omega-3s from other sources, cause health problems. So vegetable oils aren't inherently unhealthy and can be consumed without problems as long as the need for Omega-3 is respected.
taffer 6y ago
> Vegetable oils are most likely carcinogenic, amid other health issues Strange. Why do I only ever see this claim from esoteric websites and blogs and never from serious organizations? E.g. "No need to avoid healthy omega-6 fats"[1] [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/no-need-to-avoid-healthy-omega-6-fats https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/no-need-to...
- msandford 6y ago
  In fairness to the esoteric websites, the official guidelines for the US have been high-carb and low-fat for what 40 years? And the health outcomes in the US during that 40 years haven't been great. I've heard the phrase "epidemic of obesity" a lot. That doesn't make the esoteric websites right, but I think perhaps the idea that the consensus diet advice is good and right "because consensus" is suspect also.
  - turkeytuesday 6y ago
    People don’t necessarily follow official guidelines. I wouldn’t call the American diet low fat https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-caloric-supply-derived-from-carbohydrates-protein-and-fat https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-caloric-supply-deri... . Also this doesn’t even take into account the type of carbs. The average American consumes 15 grams of fiber a day, which means they don’t eat enough fruits, vegetables, legumes, seeds and nuts. Also a lot happened during those 40 years, to pin it all on the food guidelines is a bit too simplistic IMO.
3131s 6y ago
Must be why vegans and vegetarians die so much younger! Oh wait...
ornornor 6y ago
I wonder how much healthier the hormones and antibiotics in meat are though.
momokoko 6y ago
Imagine feeling this guilty about eating meat and not having the willpower to stop that you have to find borderline conspiracy theory articles about how vegetable oil is as bad for you as smoking cigarettes and how an impossible burger will give you kidney failure just to make yourself feel better about eating meat.
- bzb6 6y ago
  It doesn’t sound to me like he feels guilty about eating meat.
Thorrez 6y ago
So there's one study that didn't find an association between meat an cancer? Well this article[1] says it looks at 400 studies, and did find an association. One of the studies had 262195 people. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/01/bacon-cancer-processed-meats-nitrates-nitrites-sausages https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/01/bacon-cancer-pr...

thorwasdfasdf 6y ago

Yes, oils are pretty bad for you but Red meat is a class 2 carcinogen. So, neither are good for you.

msandford 6y ago
According to the WHO class 2 is "probably carcinogenic" and what was effectively a meta (or meta-meta) analysis showed that the increased risk was 18%. Do we know how bad vegetable oils are for people yet? Is there any reason to think that they're 100% A-OK? Humans have been eating meat for 10s or 100s of thousands if not millions of years. Humans have been eating highly refined vegetable and seed oils for what, a couple of hundred? One of these food sources helped turn apes into humans. The other didn't even exist until humans invented a LOT of technology.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  I think a few hundred years is long enough that if there's any sort of clear signal that they cause cancer, it's going to be visible.
  - rangoon626 6y ago
    One wonders why cancer rates continue to climb
    - taffer 6y ago
      Easy: People are getting older. Older people have a higher risk of getting cancer.
    - ornornor 6y ago
      We’re getting older and much better at detecting cancer, most likely.
      - rangoon626 6y ago
        Or, the amount of industrial chemicals that os entering our food supply is... toxic.
- manishsharan 6y ago
  >>Humans have been eating meat for 10s or 100s of thousands if not millions of years. Technically that may be true but humans only ate meat when the hunt was successful. Most of the time , they had a plant based diet. Meat has always been unaffordable luxury for most peole. The farm grown , tax subsidixzed, growth hormone loaded meat industry is a rather new phenomenon.
  - dasudasu 6y ago
    Humans might have been eating a lot more meat in the past when they were hunter-gatherers: it's just that their entire existence was centered around getting that food. Look at Inuits and how little plant based food they consumed.

mike_d 6y ago

I don't remember the exact details, but the study found that after X days of eating Impossible Burgers mice suffered serious health side effects. So what did they do? Ran another study for X/2 days and resubmitted to the FDA.

martinpw 6y ago
You really need to have something more verifiable than that before just throwing around a claim like that. What study are you talking about? You could at least try and find a link.
- dbetteridge 6y ago
  That would imply such a link exists, seems to be a lot of complete nonsense being thrown around in this thread around nutrition and food.

telchar 6y ago

To be fair, your first link doesn't say that vegerable oils are bad for you. It just says that the Omega-6 fatty acids in them, if not balanced out by additional Omega-3s from other sources, cause health problems. So vegetable oils aren't inherently unhealthy and can be consumed without problems as long as the need for Omega-3 is respected.

taffer 6y ago

> Vegetable oils are most likely carcinogenic, amid other health issues Strange. Why do I only ever see this claim from esoteric websites and blogs and never from serious organizations? E.g. "No need to avoid healthy omega-6 fats"[1] [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/no-need-to-avoid-healthy-omega-6-fats https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/no-need-to...

msandford 6y ago
In fairness to the esoteric websites, the official guidelines for the US have been high-carb and low-fat for what 40 years? And the health outcomes in the US during that 40 years haven't been great. I've heard the phrase "epidemic of obesity" a lot. That doesn't make the esoteric websites right, but I think perhaps the idea that the consensus diet advice is good and right "because consensus" is suspect also.
- turkeytuesday 6y ago
  People don’t necessarily follow official guidelines. I wouldn’t call the American diet low fat https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-caloric-supply-derived-from-carbohydrates-protein-and-fat https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-caloric-supply-deri... . Also this doesn’t even take into account the type of carbs. The average American consumes 15 grams of fiber a day, which means they don’t eat enough fruits, vegetables, legumes, seeds and nuts. Also a lot happened during those 40 years, to pin it all on the food guidelines is a bit too simplistic IMO.

3131s 6y ago

Must be why vegans and vegetarians die so much younger! Oh wait...

ornornor 6y ago

I wonder how much healthier the hormones and antibiotics in meat are though.

momokoko 6y ago

Imagine feeling this guilty about eating meat and not having the willpower to stop that you have to find borderline conspiracy theory articles about how vegetable oil is as bad for you as smoking cigarettes and how an impossible burger will give you kidney failure just to make yourself feel better about eating meat.

bzb6 6y ago
It doesn’t sound to me like he feels guilty about eating meat.

Thorrez 6y ago

So there's one study that didn't find an association between meat an cancer? Well this article[1] says it looks at 400 studies, and did find an association. One of the studies had 262195 people. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/01/bacon-cancer-processed-meats-nitrates-nitrites-sausages https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/01/bacon-cancer-pr...