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This article makes no sense. It's someone who has no idea at all asking extremely superficial questions. How do companies from country X operate in other countr

This article makes no sense. It's someone who has no idea at all asking extremely superficial questions. How do companies from country X operate in other country Y? They setup a local company in country Y wholly owned by the parent. Suddenly, all of the FUD around "how will this ever work across borders!" in this article goes away.

richiebful1 6y ago
I think the problem isn't "how does this work" but "is it worth it" for smaller companies to have workers in other countries. From the article: >Not every company is a FAANG, and companies will struggle to transition given their limited resources.
- philote 6y ago
  But that's an argument about having remote workers in other countries, not necessarily about remote work in general. Allowing remote workers would greatly expand the available resources a company could choose from within their own country.
- skissane 6y ago
  > but "is it worth it" for smaller companies to have workers in other countries There are a couple of options: 1) There are a lot of accounting/law/etc firms willing to setup a local subsidiary for you and do all the necessary paperwork and book-keeping. All you have to do is pay them $$$ and sign the stuff they send you. They'll tell you when to have board meetings and spoon-feed you the resolutions the directors need to pass, etc (e.g. in some jurisdictions the directors need to review the accounts once a year and pass a resolution saying the business is still solvent – so long as the parent company is guaranteeing the subsidiary, this turns into a pro forma exercise, since the subsidiary will rely on the parent company's guarantee to ensure its own solvency) 2) There are firms (e.g. Gitlab uses Safeguard and Remote) which will employ people for you in another country. You just pay them $$$ and they legally employ the employees and look after tax/benefits/etc. Technically they are contractors who are employees of this agency but you can treat them like employees. Now, both options can be expensive. (Option 2 may be cheaper for a small number of employees, soon option 1 will become cheaper.) But, it is really a question – if it costs $X extra to employ person Y in country Z, is person Y worth paying $X extra for?
FlyingSnake 6y ago
> They setup a local company in country Y wholly owned by the parent. The discussion is about non-FAANGs here. In my experience this isn't always the case and companies aren't always willing to do so just to hire a remote talent. I personally know someone who was hired for a US based company in Berlin, and when he was laid off, he had to spend few thousand €s from his own pocket to take care of the legal stuff for closing the company. I understand remote work is the future, but we can't brush stuff under the carpet and say everything is hunky-dory.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  You can circumvent most of that by hiring the international remote person as a contractor or by having him incorporate himself as a consultancy firm and then buy consultancy services from him. It also becomes trivial to fire (don't renew the contract!)
  - FlyingSnake 6y ago
    Most people here in EU would prefer to have a permanent work contract instead of having to jump through the hoops. Also contracting is a different ball game in many countries. E.g. in Germany the Tax office mandates that the contractor should have more than one customer per tax year. This would make it a hassle for a German software engineer to work for a UK company, who would rather work locally. The smaller non-FAANG companies/startup might lose quality remote talent due to this.
    - 908B64B197 6y ago
      > E.g. in Germany the Tax office mandates that the contractor should have more than one customer per tax year. Ahh, that I didn't know. Even if they are employed by their own consultancy firm? > The smaller non-FAANG companies/startup might lose quality remote talent due to this. That sounds like a business opportunity where some SaaS could take a percentage and handle local tax and reporting obligations.
  - TechBro8615 6y ago
mikhailfranco 6y ago
No, they usually expect the worker to set up a local company in Country Y, and hire the worker as a contractor through their own company. Then the worker takes responsibility for their own work visa, employer's payroll taxes, social security and medical insurance. It is still possible for the hiring company to provide IT equipment and even offer stock options, or other bonuses. In practice, the worker might actually be living in Country Z.

richiebful1 6y ago

I think the problem isn't "how does this work" but "is it worth it" for smaller companies to have workers in other countries. From the article: >Not every company is a FAANG, and companies will struggle to transition given their limited resources.

philote 6y ago
But that's an argument about having remote workers in other countries, not necessarily about remote work in general. Allowing remote workers would greatly expand the available resources a company could choose from within their own country.
skissane 6y ago
> but "is it worth it" for smaller companies to have workers in other countries There are a couple of options: 1) There are a lot of accounting/law/etc firms willing to setup a local subsidiary for you and do all the necessary paperwork and book-keeping. All you have to do is pay them $$$ and sign the stuff they send you. They'll tell you when to have board meetings and spoon-feed you the resolutions the directors need to pass, etc (e.g. in some jurisdictions the directors need to review the accounts once a year and pass a resolution saying the business is still solvent – so long as the parent company is guaranteeing the subsidiary, this turns into a pro forma exercise, since the subsidiary will rely on the parent company's guarantee to ensure its own solvency) 2) There are firms (e.g. Gitlab uses Safeguard and Remote) which will employ people for you in another country. You just pay them $$$ and they legally employ the employees and look after tax/benefits/etc. Technically they are contractors who are employees of this agency but you can treat them like employees. Now, both options can be expensive. (Option 2 may be cheaper for a small number of employees, soon option 1 will become cheaper.) But, it is really a question – if it costs $X extra to employ person Y in country Z, is person Y worth paying $X extra for?

FlyingSnake 6y ago

> They setup a local company in country Y wholly owned by the parent. The discussion is about non-FAANGs here. In my experience this isn't always the case and companies aren't always willing to do so just to hire a remote talent. I personally know someone who was hired for a US based company in Berlin, and when he was laid off, he had to spend few thousand €s from his own pocket to take care of the legal stuff for closing the company. I understand remote work is the future, but we can't brush stuff under the carpet and say everything is hunky-dory.

908B64B197 6y ago
You can circumvent most of that by hiring the international remote person as a contractor or by having him incorporate himself as a consultancy firm and then buy consultancy services from him. It also becomes trivial to fire (don't renew the contract!)
- FlyingSnake 6y ago
  Most people here in EU would prefer to have a permanent work contract instead of having to jump through the hoops. Also contracting is a different ball game in many countries. E.g. in Germany the Tax office mandates that the contractor should have more than one customer per tax year. This would make it a hassle for a German software engineer to work for a UK company, who would rather work locally. The smaller non-FAANG companies/startup might lose quality remote talent due to this.
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    > E.g. in Germany the Tax office mandates that the contractor should have more than one customer per tax year. Ahh, that I didn't know. Even if they are employed by their own consultancy firm? > The smaller non-FAANG companies/startup might lose quality remote talent due to this. That sounds like a business opportunity where some SaaS could take a percentage and handle local tax and reporting obligations.
- TechBro8615 6y ago

mikhailfranco 6y ago

No, they usually expect the worker to set up a local company in Country Y, and hire the worker as a contractor through their own company. Then the worker takes responsibility for their own work visa, employer's payroll taxes, social security and medical insurance. It is still possible for the hiring company to provide IT equipment and even offer stock options, or other bonuses. In practice, the worker might actually be living in Country Z.