4 ms·

I can understand (not approve of, but understand) DRM for like your OS, and anything that can install. It is easy to slip up and install malicious software, for

I can understand (not approve of, but understand) DRM for like your OS, and anything that can install. It is easy to slip up and install malicious software, for non-tech, non-critical-thinking individuals. But DRM on ink? What's the worst that could happen? I ruin the printer I paid for? I ruin the page I'm printing? What's the justification, outside of blind greed?

tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
I would assume the "justification" is something along the lines of "you get poor print quality and then blame it on the printer hurting our brand". You did mention the real reason though.
waihtis 6y ago
In case anyone else was interested what the justification is: 1) Counterfeit cartridges may cause damage to your HP LaserJet printer hardware – which can lead to downtimes of the whole company’s printing infrastructure and disruption of entire workflows. 2) Manufacturing and distributing counterfeit items is illegal. So, buying fakes may bring you and your organization into contact with shady business which may be operated by large-scale criminal syndicates. 3) Counterfeit toner cartridges may alter the printing behavior of your HP printer. When using Original HP toner cartridges, only then can HP printing systems perform within Blue Angel guidelines limits. 4) Due to their often poor print quality and necessary re-prints, counterfeits are likely to waste valuable resources such as paper or energy. Also at the end of life, counterfeits likely don’t get recycled. Directly copy-pasted from https://www8.hp.com/us/en/cartridge/anti-counterfeit.html https://www8.hp.com/us/en/cartridge/anti-counterfeit.html
- NoSorryCannot 6y ago
  The framing of all third-party cartridges as "counterfeits" regardless of whether or not they carry HP trademarks is deliciously dishonest. Buyers getting into difficult relationships with "large-scale criminal syndicates" over discount ink and toner also strains plausibility. Whatever the reality, they've made it so consumers get burned by counterfeits (rendered completely nonfunctional) instead of HP, while conveniently eliminating legitimate competition.
  - waihtis 6y ago
    You know, I was wondering where the italian mob had disappeared to.. I guess we have a clue now?
- mahoho 6y ago
  I was struck by the poor grammar when I read this, and there's also something that feels vaguely unprofessional about the voice and tone. I'm not sure what that might indicate other than that HP doesn't consider this an important enough PR issue to run it through their best copy editors.
frogpelt 6y ago
Do you remember DRM on K-cups?
kuschku 6y ago
With counterfeit cartridges the printing behaviour may change, leading to the almost-invisible tracking dots on each page that encode the printers serial number, the cartridges serial number, time of day, etc to either become too visible or too invisible. Also, with different ink your printer might print content with a different color profile, so it won't look the same, and it might need to clean the printing heads more often (and the cleaning tech for that is often only designed for a limited amount of uses). But while all these are legitimate reasons, projects like Instant Ink show the true reason is to just turn the printer into a subscription product: buying a printer at a loss, and making a profit with every page printed.
pb77 6y ago
I know on my brother laser printer, when i ran out of toner i bought a new cartridge (3rd party ) from amazon for $10 and have replaced it twice without problems and printed over 2000 pages. Each cartridge lasts about 1500 to 2000 pages. I think argument from HP is pure greed. I don't know if these actions could bleed into the laptops as well. I currently have a HP, would have to look at Dell or something else in the future.
numpad0 6y ago
Color is objectively worse for third party inks, whether it justifies greedy sales tactics, idk

tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago

I would assume the "justification" is something along the lines of "you get poor print quality and then blame it on the printer hurting our brand". You did mention the real reason though.

waihtis 6y ago

In case anyone else was interested what the justification is: 1) Counterfeit cartridges may cause damage to your HP LaserJet printer hardware – which can lead to downtimes of the whole company’s printing infrastructure and disruption of entire workflows. 2) Manufacturing and distributing counterfeit items is illegal. So, buying fakes may bring you and your organization into contact with shady business which may be operated by large-scale criminal syndicates. 3) Counterfeit toner cartridges may alter the printing behavior of your HP printer. When using Original HP toner cartridges, only then can HP printing systems perform within Blue Angel guidelines limits. 4) Due to their often poor print quality and necessary re-prints, counterfeits are likely to waste valuable resources such as paper or energy. Also at the end of life, counterfeits likely don’t get recycled. Directly copy-pasted from https://www8.hp.com/us/en/cartridge/anti-counterfeit.html https://www8.hp.com/us/en/cartridge/anti-counterfeit.html

NoSorryCannot 6y ago
The framing of all third-party cartridges as "counterfeits" regardless of whether or not they carry HP trademarks is deliciously dishonest. Buyers getting into difficult relationships with "large-scale criminal syndicates" over discount ink and toner also strains plausibility. Whatever the reality, they've made it so consumers get burned by counterfeits (rendered completely nonfunctional) instead of HP, while conveniently eliminating legitimate competition.
- waihtis 6y ago
  You know, I was wondering where the italian mob had disappeared to.. I guess we have a clue now?
mahoho 6y ago
I was struck by the poor grammar when I read this, and there's also something that feels vaguely unprofessional about the voice and tone. I'm not sure what that might indicate other than that HP doesn't consider this an important enough PR issue to run it through their best copy editors.

frogpelt 6y ago

Do you remember DRM on K-cups?

kuschku 6y ago

With counterfeit cartridges the printing behaviour may change, leading to the almost-invisible tracking dots on each page that encode the printers serial number, the cartridges serial number, time of day, etc to either become too visible or too invisible. Also, with different ink your printer might print content with a different color profile, so it won't look the same, and it might need to clean the printing heads more often (and the cleaning tech for that is often only designed for a limited amount of uses). But while all these are legitimate reasons, projects like Instant Ink show the true reason is to just turn the printer into a subscription product: buying a printer at a loss, and making a profit with every page printed.

pb77 6y ago

I know on my brother laser printer, when i ran out of toner i bought a new cartridge (3rd party ) from amazon for $10 and have replaced it twice without problems and printed over 2000 pages. Each cartridge lasts about 1500 to 2000 pages. I think argument from HP is pure greed. I don't know if these actions could bleed into the laptops as well. I currently have a HP, would have to look at Dell or something else in the future.

numpad0 6y ago

Color is objectively worse for third party inks, whether it justifies greedy sales tactics, idk