5 ms·

The Digital Nomads Did Not Prepare for This

draw_down 6y ago
Imagine you work at a campground or you’re trying to trim your lawn and one of these psychos starts yelling at you about their Zoom calls. Mental.
bootcampwhere 6y ago
So sick of paywalled articles making it to the front page :( Not all of us can afford subscriptions to every news site.
lambdasquirrel 6y ago
My eyes kind of open wide reading this, as if I’m reading a caricature of tech’s 1%. Back in Oakland, I had neighbors who had a sprinter van that they’d used before COVID, and they simply went on a very-extended road trip. In a nutshell, I think maybe these people are trying to make it a bit too magical. Back when hackers and entrepreneurs were poorer and we had to work out of coffee shops, and not coworking spaces, it was obvious to everyone that reliable wifi was a must. I broke away from the Bay myself, but I tried places out before settling in, because there are too many unknowns that you don’t know until you have stayed in a place. The lack of pragmatism in these stories is very not-engineering-like.
- mikestew 6y ago
  The lack of pragmatism in these stories is very not-engineering-like. I didn’t get the impression that any of them were engineers. The way I read between the lines, most sounded like there was money coming from somewhere, but it wasn’t the business they were play-acting while on vacation. That, or it just wasn’t going as well as they thought. Setting up camp chairs outside a McDonald’s? I’d rather stay home. Turning a Tesla into a camper? You’ve done this before, right? No? Good luck with all of the new problems you discover. From my POV, it read as folks with money and privilege discovering that money and privilege can’t smooth over every problem. It’s not unusual for the NYT, and if you think it is, read the weekend section where a couple “just starting out” has a budget of $2MM, and which 900 sq. ft. condo should they buy with that pittance?
  - Bjorkbat 6y ago
    My takeaway was that these people were more like "hustler types" I mean, who decides to create a startup incubator focused on "sports technology" (whatever that is) after their "conference business" (again, whatever that is) becomes nonviable? Not that it matters, hustler types and people with money and privilege often overlap.
    - mikestew 6y ago
      Ya know, I didn’t really want to go there with “you know the type”, but I think you’re spot on. And your example was at the top of my mind when I was thinking of that “type”. Good luck ever figuring out if it is truly working out for them, or if they’re just burning money that might not even be their’s.
ogre_codes 6y ago
Is this meant to be a Schadenfreude sort of article? Are we supposed to enjoy their discomfort? Because I can't really see a ton of room for being sympathetic with people being frustrated trying to travel all over the world while we're in the middle of a pandemic. All of these people have good jobs and could easily settle somewhere.
- taude 6y ago
  Maybe? I mean I did enjoy the 4th story of the person - who thought buying a Tesla and wearing a facemask that said "make america smart again" and then touring the US to get soak in the Americana - was a good idea. Kind of is the textbook version of Liberal Elite, and not sure how she wasn't that self aware enough to know that her trip wasn't going to turn out great. With that kind of money, she could have gotten a nice camper van thing, a less opinionated face mask, and probably gotten on OK with the other 49% of the country.
- txcwpalpha 6y ago
  I can't tell either. On one hand, this article seems like a response to the hundreds of other articles, instagram posts, blogs, etc we've seen over the past several months that endlessly romanticize these actions. The vast majority of people that I know that have done this, have done so with an attitude moreso that COVID is an opportunity for vacation than anything else. They bought vans and celebrated with gaudy influencer-esque Instagram posts, and then were dismayed when not everyone celebrated with them. Though the problems like "someone was judgemental about wifi at a campground" are mundane, it can be quite a jarring wake-up-call to encounter if your attitude up to that point was that everyone will think you are some kind of fabulous unicorn for being a nomad. So from that perspective, I am slightly tempted to be sympathetic. And if this article discourages even one person from going on these ridiculous "we bought a van!! aren't we so cool? follow us on instagram!" escapades, I'll be happy. But on the other hand, while the rest of us were struggling with real problems like being laid off, ill friends and families, and the soul crushing weight of responsibly not traveling, these assholes were out frolicking and potentially making things worse. And now this article makes it seem like they want our sympathy that there wasn't a pot of gold at the end of their rainbow? Come off it.
taude 6y ago
I'd love to hear some counter points to this article from those of you who are crushing the digital nomad lifestyle. Who prepared well, who are having great adventures, having the once-in-a-lifetime travel, and what you learned to make this go well, etc...
- throwaway1777 6y ago
  There are thousands of digital nomad blog posts that show the happy side of it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- anuila 6y ago
  The only way to “crush the nomadic style” at the moment is to allow oneself to travel within their own country (or with very limited international travel). This is likely more expensive than living in Thailand. I can’t afford nomadic living in the US.
- kschiffer 6y ago
  Being able to calmly and piecefully experience the many cultural heritage sites, temples and gardens of Kyoto without any foreign tourists was one of those once-in-a-lifetime experiences for me (among others).
- bxk1 6y ago
  At the beginning of the pandemic my sibling, who lives in the US, left Silicon Valley expecting to work remotely permanently, bought a big house in a much much cheaper location and is pretty happy about that. Not sure if any of the travelling digital nomad lifestyle stories are even real, people who have managed to fly somewhere usually got stuck there for many months with all the touristy stuff not working and had to live like regular people, rent regular rooms, apartments, houses, shop at regular supermarkets, etc.
  - anuila 6y ago
    > had to live like regular people, rent regular rooms, apartments, houses, shop at regular supermarkets, etc. This varies by location, but that’s what I’ve always done. I generally skip all touristy activities until the last moment and just enjoy the different environment, food, vibe, people. Living away from my hometown is advantageous enough.
SilasX 6y ago
Seems overstated. The article is 90% problems originating from crossing international borders, which, no duh, is going to be a problem, especially in a pandemic. The rest, applicable to domestic nomadism, were milquetoast things like “judgment for using the campground WiFi”.
throwaway1777 6y ago
The part about 8 days being peak vacation happiness rings true. Once you’ve been somewhere for a few weeks it starts to feel like home and like a routine. This can be either really good or really bad depending on how nice the place actually is to live. Turns out most of the nice places happen to be expensive too.
- lambdasquirrel 6y ago
  Yes, but up to a point. For many of us on HN, the issue is that we’ve been forced to live in the Bay. But there are plenty of nice, “expensive” places that are still a lot cheaper than the Bay. The non-techie residents have had to leave for elsewhere for a long time now.
- travgary 6y ago
  personally I think 1 month is the peak for me. I love that feeling of building a routine in a new place. Right now I feel like any place is going to get boring because we are stuck. May as well trade apartments for a month so we can get tired of a different routine and then miss the comforts of your home. Some time away makes the grass seem greener.
- em-bee 6y ago
  it depends on what you are looking for. if i don't stay in a place for at least a month, then it's almost not worth it for me. i want the routine, i want to live and work and not be on a permanent vacation. i have done both, backpacking for 3 months at a time, during student holidays, being a digital nomad where i stayed for days, sometimes weeks, essentially as long as i was welcome, or as long as my passport allowed me to stay, at someones couch. but i also got jobs with work permits and stayed for longer, so that over a decade i lived in 7 different countries and visited a few more. 20 years later i still don't consider myself having settled, i am just staying longer in each place. and i am open to new opportunities. i am just thinking in years now, instead of days or weeks.
rayiner 6y ago
I feel kind of bad for the single people whose lives have been totally disrupted by this. It’s actually been a pretty nice year out here in the exurbs. My parents are retired and live nearby, so they take care of the kids while my wife and I work remotely. Parks are never busy and our river was open even when pools were not. It’s been lovely family time.
wskinner 6y ago
Unsurprisingly, this piece focuses on outliers that are entertaining or cringey. The unsexy version of pandemic nomadism is safer, easier, cheaper, and boring enough not to warrant a snickering write up in the NYT. My partner and I are currently spending around a month at a time in various medium sized cities in the mountain west. It is much cheaper than the Bay Area. The WiFi is good. The people are friendly. It’s not super Instagrammable, but that’s not why we came. I think of this as a straightforward arbitrage. We don’t have to be in SF, and there are plenty of other places where we can live normal lives for dramatically cheaper, without the grime and city government shenanigans.
- taude 6y ago
  Thanks. It seems to answer my question below, a common consensus is "nomad" in your own country, and maybe don't think about it as the trip/time of your life.
- txcwpalpha 6y ago
  I don't think they are outliers. I know quite a few people who have attempted the "covid digital nomad" lifestyle (and I myself have some experience as a nomad pre-covid), and although they haven't reported something as entertainingly cringey as posting up on a McDonald's sidewalk for conference calls, they're not too far off. The logistical problems (working wifi, etc) are expected and avoidable to anyone with half a brain, but the bigger problem is the social divide. The story about the guy in Costa Rica seems to be the most accurate. There is a good amount of disdain for this type of lifestyle, especially during the pandemic. Among my "nomad" friends, the only ones that haven't come limping back home were the ones who successfully walled themselves off from external judgement and formed a "bubble" where they only associate with other nomads. Fun if that's what you want to do, but probably not what most people expect when they embark on this escapade.
  - pmoriarty 6y ago
    Expats have always had it tough, and it takes a special kind of person to continue at it long-term unless they have to. Most people just want to settle down somewhere they feel comfortable, and not always be a stranger in a strange land, unless they feel exceptionally drawn to that place, in which case they might stay.
filmgirlcw 6y ago
Love this article but this is a great reminder why when you’re doing something cringe, fight every impulse to talk to the press about it. It will only end badly. And I say this as a former full-time journalist (I moved into engineering but I still do freelance stuff on occasion and I podcast), where part of the job (the core part), is getting people to talk to you, whether it is in their interest to do so or not. Despite popular opinion, in most cases, the author isn’t going into the story looking to make the subjects look stupid and insufferable (if anything, the opposite is usually true — reporters often feel a sense of deference/loyalty to the people who agree to talk to them, especially on the record behind their own name), but the subjects just so frequently do it to themselves that to ignore that level of self-sabotage would be NOT doing your job correctly.
deadmetheny 6y ago
>At an R.V. park near Boise, Idaho, she noticed a Wi-Fi hot spot whose name was the equivalent of a middle finger directed at all Californians. >During one curbside conference call in Eugene, Ore., a nearby man with a weed whacker began roaring his motor. Ms. Adair-Smith told him that she was trying to salvage her career. He didn’t care. Comedy gold.

Imagine you work at a campground or you’re trying to trim your lawn and one of these psychos starts yelling at you about their Zoom calls. Mental.

bootcampwhere 6y ago

So sick of paywalled articles making it to the front page :( Not all of us can afford subscriptions to every news site.

lambdasquirrel 6y ago

My eyes kind of open wide reading this, as if I’m reading a caricature of tech’s 1%. Back in Oakland, I had neighbors who had a sprinter van that they’d used before COVID, and they simply went on a very-extended road trip. In a nutshell, I think maybe these people are trying to make it a bit too magical. Back when hackers and entrepreneurs were poorer and we had to work out of coffee shops, and not coworking spaces, it was obvious to everyone that reliable wifi was a must. I broke away from the Bay myself, but I tried places out before settling in, because there are too many unknowns that you don’t know until you have stayed in a place. The lack of pragmatism in these stories is very not-engineering-like.

mikestew 6y ago
The lack of pragmatism in these stories is very not-engineering-like. I didn’t get the impression that any of them were engineers. The way I read between the lines, most sounded like there was money coming from somewhere, but it wasn’t the business they were play-acting while on vacation. That, or it just wasn’t going as well as they thought. Setting up camp chairs outside a McDonald’s? I’d rather stay home. Turning a Tesla into a camper? You’ve done this before, right? No? Good luck with all of the new problems you discover. From my POV, it read as folks with money and privilege discovering that money and privilege can’t smooth over every problem. It’s not unusual for the NYT, and if you think it is, read the weekend section where a couple “just starting out” has a budget of $2MM, and which 900 sq. ft. condo should they buy with that pittance?
- Bjorkbat 6y ago
  My takeaway was that these people were more like "hustler types" I mean, who decides to create a startup incubator focused on "sports technology" (whatever that is) after their "conference business" (again, whatever that is) becomes nonviable? Not that it matters, hustler types and people with money and privilege often overlap.
  - mikestew 6y ago
    Ya know, I didn’t really want to go there with “you know the type”, but I think you’re spot on. And your example was at the top of my mind when I was thinking of that “type”. Good luck ever figuring out if it is truly working out for them, or if they’re just burning money that might not even be their’s.

ogre_codes 6y ago

Is this meant to be a Schadenfreude sort of article? Are we supposed to enjoy their discomfort? Because I can't really see a ton of room for being sympathetic with people being frustrated trying to travel all over the world while we're in the middle of a pandemic. All of these people have good jobs and could easily settle somewhere.

taude 6y ago
Maybe? I mean I did enjoy the 4th story of the person - who thought buying a Tesla and wearing a facemask that said "make america smart again" and then touring the US to get soak in the Americana - was a good idea. Kind of is the textbook version of Liberal Elite, and not sure how she wasn't that self aware enough to know that her trip wasn't going to turn out great. With that kind of money, she could have gotten a nice camper van thing, a less opinionated face mask, and probably gotten on OK with the other 49% of the country.
txcwpalpha 6y ago
I can't tell either. On one hand, this article seems like a response to the hundreds of other articles, instagram posts, blogs, etc we've seen over the past several months that endlessly romanticize these actions. The vast majority of people that I know that have done this, have done so with an attitude moreso that COVID is an opportunity for vacation than anything else. They bought vans and celebrated with gaudy influencer-esque Instagram posts, and then were dismayed when not everyone celebrated with them. Though the problems like "someone was judgemental about wifi at a campground" are mundane, it can be quite a jarring wake-up-call to encounter if your attitude up to that point was that everyone will think you are some kind of fabulous unicorn for being a nomad. So from that perspective, I am slightly tempted to be sympathetic. And if this article discourages even one person from going on these ridiculous "we bought a van!! aren't we so cool? follow us on instagram!" escapades, I'll be happy. But on the other hand, while the rest of us were struggling with real problems like being laid off, ill friends and families, and the soul crushing weight of responsibly not traveling, these assholes were out frolicking and potentially making things worse. And now this article makes it seem like they want our sympathy that there wasn't a pot of gold at the end of their rainbow? Come off it.

taude 6y ago

I'd love to hear some counter points to this article from those of you who are crushing the digital nomad lifestyle. Who prepared well, who are having great adventures, having the once-in-a-lifetime travel, and what you learned to make this go well, etc...

throwaway1777 6y ago
There are thousands of digital nomad blog posts that show the happy side of it.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
anuila 6y ago
The only way to “crush the nomadic style” at the moment is to allow oneself to travel within their own country (or with very limited international travel). This is likely more expensive than living in Thailand. I can’t afford nomadic living in the US.
kschiffer 6y ago
Being able to calmly and piecefully experience the many cultural heritage sites, temples and gardens of Kyoto without any foreign tourists was one of those once-in-a-lifetime experiences for me (among others).
bxk1 6y ago
At the beginning of the pandemic my sibling, who lives in the US, left Silicon Valley expecting to work remotely permanently, bought a big house in a much much cheaper location and is pretty happy about that. Not sure if any of the travelling digital nomad lifestyle stories are even real, people who have managed to fly somewhere usually got stuck there for many months with all the touristy stuff not working and had to live like regular people, rent regular rooms, apartments, houses, shop at regular supermarkets, etc.
- anuila 6y ago
  > had to live like regular people, rent regular rooms, apartments, houses, shop at regular supermarkets, etc. This varies by location, but that’s what I’ve always done. I generally skip all touristy activities until the last moment and just enjoy the different environment, food, vibe, people. Living away from my hometown is advantageous enough.

SilasX 6y ago

Seems overstated. The article is 90% problems originating from crossing international borders, which, no duh, is going to be a problem, especially in a pandemic. The rest, applicable to domestic nomadism, were milquetoast things like “judgment for using the campground WiFi”.

throwaway1777 6y ago

The part about 8 days being peak vacation happiness rings true. Once you’ve been somewhere for a few weeks it starts to feel like home and like a routine. This can be either really good or really bad depending on how nice the place actually is to live. Turns out most of the nice places happen to be expensive too.

lambdasquirrel 6y ago
Yes, but up to a point. For many of us on HN, the issue is that we’ve been forced to live in the Bay. But there are plenty of nice, “expensive” places that are still a lot cheaper than the Bay. The non-techie residents have had to leave for elsewhere for a long time now.
travgary 6y ago
personally I think 1 month is the peak for me. I love that feeling of building a routine in a new place. Right now I feel like any place is going to get boring because we are stuck. May as well trade apartments for a month so we can get tired of a different routine and then miss the comforts of your home. Some time away makes the grass seem greener.
em-bee 6y ago
it depends on what you are looking for. if i don't stay in a place for at least a month, then it's almost not worth it for me. i want the routine, i want to live and work and not be on a permanent vacation. i have done both, backpacking for 3 months at a time, during student holidays, being a digital nomad where i stayed for days, sometimes weeks, essentially as long as i was welcome, or as long as my passport allowed me to stay, at someones couch. but i also got jobs with work permits and stayed for longer, so that over a decade i lived in 7 different countries and visited a few more. 20 years later i still don't consider myself having settled, i am just staying longer in each place. and i am open to new opportunities. i am just thinking in years now, instead of days or weeks.

rayiner 6y ago

I feel kind of bad for the single people whose lives have been totally disrupted by this. It’s actually been a pretty nice year out here in the exurbs. My parents are retired and live nearby, so they take care of the kids while my wife and I work remotely. Parks are never busy and our river was open even when pools were not. It’s been lovely family time.

wskinner 6y ago

Unsurprisingly, this piece focuses on outliers that are entertaining or cringey. The unsexy version of pandemic nomadism is safer, easier, cheaper, and boring enough not to warrant a snickering write up in the NYT. My partner and I are currently spending around a month at a time in various medium sized cities in the mountain west. It is much cheaper than the Bay Area. The WiFi is good. The people are friendly. It’s not super Instagrammable, but that’s not why we came. I think of this as a straightforward arbitrage. We don’t have to be in SF, and there are plenty of other places where we can live normal lives for dramatically cheaper, without the grime and city government shenanigans.

taude 6y ago
Thanks. It seems to answer my question below, a common consensus is "nomad" in your own country, and maybe don't think about it as the trip/time of your life.
txcwpalpha 6y ago
I don't think they are outliers. I know quite a few people who have attempted the "covid digital nomad" lifestyle (and I myself have some experience as a nomad pre-covid), and although they haven't reported something as entertainingly cringey as posting up on a McDonald's sidewalk for conference calls, they're not too far off. The logistical problems (working wifi, etc) are expected and avoidable to anyone with half a brain, but the bigger problem is the social divide. The story about the guy in Costa Rica seems to be the most accurate. There is a good amount of disdain for this type of lifestyle, especially during the pandemic. Among my "nomad" friends, the only ones that haven't come limping back home were the ones who successfully walled themselves off from external judgement and formed a "bubble" where they only associate with other nomads. Fun if that's what you want to do, but probably not what most people expect when they embark on this escapade.
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  Expats have always had it tough, and it takes a special kind of person to continue at it long-term unless they have to. Most people just want to settle down somewhere they feel comfortable, and not always be a stranger in a strange land, unless they feel exceptionally drawn to that place, in which case they might stay.

filmgirlcw 6y ago

Love this article but this is a great reminder why when you’re doing something cringe, fight every impulse to talk to the press about it. It will only end badly. And I say this as a former full-time journalist (I moved into engineering but I still do freelance stuff on occasion and I podcast), where part of the job (the core part), is getting people to talk to you, whether it is in their interest to do so or not. Despite popular opinion, in most cases, the author isn’t going into the story looking to make the subjects look stupid and insufferable (if anything, the opposite is usually true — reporters often feel a sense of deference/loyalty to the people who agree to talk to them, especially on the record behind their own name), but the subjects just so frequently do it to themselves that to ignore that level of self-sabotage would be NOT doing your job correctly.

deadmetheny 6y ago

>At an R.V. park near Boise, Idaho, she noticed a Wi-Fi hot spot whose name was the equivalent of a middle finger directed at all Californians. >During one curbside conference call in Eugene, Ore., a nearby man with a weed whacker began roaring his motor. Ms. Adair-Smith told him that she was trying to salvage her career. He didn’t care. Comedy gold.