5 ms·

> Ebola was localized. COVID-19 is not You could easily localize COVID-19, just make a vaccination passport. No entry to a country if you're not vaccinated. >

by sekai 6y ago

> Ebola was localized. COVID-19 is not You could easily localize COVID-19, just make a vaccination passport. No entry to a country if you're not vaccinated. > How many locations globally have this level of refrigeration Almost all developer countries, urban centres, where majority of people live anyway.

chinathrow 6y ago
> Almost all developer countries, urban centres, where majority of people live anyway. At -80C? Edit: There are hardly storage places right now for these temperatures. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byW1GExQB84 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byW1GExQB84
- bluGill 6y ago
  You can buy dry ice at your local grocery store. You can probably buy a cooler to put it in. And you get a week to use it after thawing, so if there is a break in the supply chain you only need to detect it and announce a vaccination clinic to that area. There might be some small town that gets 100% vaccination early on just because the truck broke down nearby and so local doctors were suddenly called upon to vaccinate their whole town just to use doses that couldn't be shipped any farther.
  - nemothekid 6y ago
    The linked video claims Pfizer has a similar solution and the currently tested parameters limit the cooler can only be opened 2x per day, and not more than 1 minute at a time, and the box only lasts 10 days, and carries doses in multiple of 1000s. A breakdown scenario in a rural area could mean 1000s of wasted doses
    - throwaway2245 6y ago
      > A breakdown scenario in a rural area could mean 1000s of wasted doses Don't you think Western countries are ordering many thousands more doses than they actually need? Breakdowns happen - places don't need to have perfect infrastructure in order to warrant treatment.
      - bluGill 6y ago
        No. There isn't the ability to deliver more supplies than needed - at least not through the end of 2021. Until then every dose is urgently needed by several people only one of who can get it.
        throwaway2245 6y ago
        I'll happily wager the UK and US will over-order and then tacitly use the argument you have made to say that African countries are wasteful and don't deserve their supply.
        bluGill 6y ago
        US and UK may over order, but they will not get deliveries. Medical companies tend to have policies in place that will distribute to Africa ahead of richer countries if the richer countries are not seeing outbreaks. Obviously there is more money in the richer countries, so the early delivery will skew that way. However once enough are vaccinated (from all potentially passed vaccines) that a country can safely open they will start redirecting vaccines to poor countries. Once the world is open the US and UK will be happy to say that they were able to cancel some unused vaccine supply if it turns out not needed. (which will be easy - between focusing on poor countries and moving production to something else (or winding down) as they recognize the need is gone they will be willing to end those contracts not completely filled. Politically it is a money saving move. Of course the above assumes best (or at least) case. There are many ways things can go wrong. If all approved vaccines need a booster every 6 months things will be very different. (this is an unlikely but still possible very worst case)
    - bluGill 6y ago
      I can't think of a rural area that is more than 2 hours drive from a city large enough to take thousands of doses. They should be able to put out a general announcement and get thousands to get the vaccine if they need to. A lot of people who can get off work on short notice if there is an emergency. Obviously not everyone, but thousands can be redirected to someone else on short notice. Of course this requires emergency shipments to those who should have got the original, but the breakdown would require that anyway. I don't know what the thawing protocol is though - this is a real concern that needs to be handled. I assume those who deal with the logistics have plans and backup plans that account for all of the above.
- m4rtink 6y ago
  If you are on the Concordia Station you can just leave it at the windowsill and it will be just fine. One of the perks of living in Antarctica. :)
  - inglor_cz 6y ago
    What if a freak heat wave comes and suddenly it is -55 overnight? :-)
    - m4rtink 6y ago
      Yeah, imagine that! You could like have just three layers of jackets or something! :) Well, as long as the temperature is under zero, all is fine - otherwise the 4 kilometers of ice under your station might pose a problem.
- nwallin 6y ago
  > > Almost all developer countries, urban centres, where majority of people live anyway. > At -80C? Absolutely. This is a solved problem. You can buy dry ice at your local supermarket. I buy meat from a ethical farming operation that ships their product in insulated packages packed with dry ice. There's almost always dry ice left over. I made a bottle bomb out of the remainder once. Every major medicine manufacturing company will already have had supply chains in place to deal with this for other medicines. Storage is a red herring. It won't last more than a day in any given medical facility.

by sekai 6y ago

chinathrow 6y ago

> Almost all developer countries, urban centres, where majority of people live anyway. At -80C? Edit: There are hardly storage places right now for these temperatures. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byW1GExQB84 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byW1GExQB84

bluGill 6y ago
You can buy dry ice at your local grocery store. You can probably buy a cooler to put it in. And you get a week to use it after thawing, so if there is a break in the supply chain you only need to detect it and announce a vaccination clinic to that area. There might be some small town that gets 100% vaccination early on just because the truck broke down nearby and so local doctors were suddenly called upon to vaccinate their whole town just to use doses that couldn't be shipped any farther.
- nemothekid 6y ago
  The linked video claims Pfizer has a similar solution and the currently tested parameters limit the cooler can only be opened 2x per day, and not more than 1 minute at a time, and the box only lasts 10 days, and carries doses in multiple of 1000s. A breakdown scenario in a rural area could mean 1000s of wasted doses
  - throwaway2245 6y ago
    > A breakdown scenario in a rural area could mean 1000s of wasted doses Don't you think Western countries are ordering many thousands more doses than they actually need? Breakdowns happen - places don't need to have perfect infrastructure in order to warrant treatment.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      No. There isn't the ability to deliver more supplies than needed - at least not through the end of 2021. Until then every dose is urgently needed by several people only one of who can get it.
      - throwaway2245 6y ago
        I'll happily wager the UK and US will over-order and then tacitly use the argument you have made to say that African countries are wasteful and don't deserve their supply.
        bluGill 6y ago
        US and UK may over order, but they will not get deliveries. Medical companies tend to have policies in place that will distribute to Africa ahead of richer countries if the richer countries are not seeing outbreaks. Obviously there is more money in the richer countries, so the early delivery will skew that way. However once enough are vaccinated (from all potentially passed vaccines) that a country can safely open they will start redirecting vaccines to poor countries. Once the world is open the US and UK will be happy to say that they were able to cancel some unused vaccine supply if it turns out not needed. (which will be easy - between focusing on poor countries and moving production to something else (or winding down) as they recognize the need is gone they will be willing to end those contracts not completely filled. Politically it is a money saving move. Of course the above assumes best (or at least) case. There are many ways things can go wrong. If all approved vaccines need a booster every 6 months things will be very different. (this is an unlikely but still possible very worst case)
  - bluGill 6y ago
    I can't think of a rural area that is more than 2 hours drive from a city large enough to take thousands of doses. They should be able to put out a general announcement and get thousands to get the vaccine if they need to. A lot of people who can get off work on short notice if there is an emergency. Obviously not everyone, but thousands can be redirected to someone else on short notice. Of course this requires emergency shipments to those who should have got the original, but the breakdown would require that anyway. I don't know what the thawing protocol is though - this is a real concern that needs to be handled. I assume those who deal with the logistics have plans and backup plans that account for all of the above.
m4rtink 6y ago
If you are on the Concordia Station you can just leave it at the windowsill and it will be just fine. One of the perks of living in Antarctica. :)
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  What if a freak heat wave comes and suddenly it is -55 overnight? :-)
  - m4rtink 6y ago
    Yeah, imagine that! You could like have just three layers of jackets or something! :) Well, as long as the temperature is under zero, all is fine - otherwise the 4 kilometers of ice under your station might pose a problem.
nwallin 6y ago
> > Almost all developer countries, urban centres, where majority of people live anyway. > At -80C? Absolutely. This is a solved problem. You can buy dry ice at your local supermarket. I buy meat from a ethical farming operation that ships their product in insulated packages packed with dry ice. There's almost always dry ice left over. I made a bottle bomb out of the remainder once. Every major medicine manufacturing company will already have had supply chains in place to deal with this for other medicines. Storage is a red herring. It won't last more than a day in any given medical facility.