6 ms·

Let’s Build a Video Card

267 points by captn3m0 6y ago

LeonenTheDK 6y ago
I've been following his videos for some time now. He also built an 8-bit CPU from scratch on breadboards, as well as a 6502 based computer also on bread boards. He's recently started the process of using the video card he made to output video from the 6502 computer. His videos are interesting and informative, and while he does offer kits to build all this stuff from his site, the part lists are there should you want to source your own (not always easy if you try to do it on the cheap and get your parts from the likes of Ali Express and Ebay). Overall his projects are fascinating for anyone with interest in retro computing or learning how computers work at the lowest level, and the videos are easy to follow and more than just a "how to put this together" tutorial.
- Snitch-Thursday 6y ago
  > Overall his projects are fascinating for anyone with interest in retro computing or learning how computers work at the lowest level I'm on the RAM-building portion of the 8-bit breadboard computer for exactly this reason. I wanted to bridge the gap between (this is an electric circuit that lights an LED) and (this is how you can take a simple inverter and a logic gate to build a D flip flop, which can power registers, SRAM, and more) and (this is an 8-bit example of a Von Neumann Architecture computer). His videos are perfect for that. Very well made and I don't have to take classes in circuit design or digital logic control & design at a college to learn the high level of how this works.
- moron4hire 6y ago
  I'm curious how well that works out, building something that complex on a breadboard. I had an FM radio project that gave me a lot of trouble until I realized the breadboard was introducing a lot of parasitic capacitance.
  - OnACoffeeBreak 6y ago
    It works well for a learning project that doesn't push clock rates. This lets the nose introduced by the breadboard to settle before each clock edge. Also, bypass capacitors are key.
  - 205guy 6y ago
    I got caught up in all his videos and had the same question. Fortunately, he has a dedicated video where he answers this with testing on the scope: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCbAafKLqC8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCbAafKLqC8 tl;dr is what the sibling comment already explained: low clock rates.
- ihumanable 6y ago
  Ben Eater's entire catalog is gold, he gets right to the meat of things, clearly explains what's happening, and makes the subject matter accessible and entertaining.
- dkersten 6y ago
  His 8-bit CPU series made me finally understand how microcode works. His videos are very clear and well explained.
  - scarecrowbob 6y ago
    I will reiterate this. I dropped out of a CS program and had just a little knowledge, but I feel like this finally made the penny drop.
laszlokorte 6y ago
Exactly the right amount of explaination for each step he does. I could perfectly follow along and learned alot.
cpascal 6y ago
Here's a video in his 6502 series where he hooks up the 6502 computer he's been building with this video card. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iURr3NBprc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iURr3NBprc I highly recommend his videos and kits. He's a great teacher.
robinduckett 6y ago
I find his voice extremely calming so that it makes me snooze whenever I try to watch his videos, which is annoying because I have to rewind back to where I fell asleep to take in the content, which is extremely interesting.
- JamesLeonis 6y ago
  He's the Bob Ross of electronics. I find speeding up the video a tad helps keep my attention.
- t0astbread 6y ago
  If I'm not in a hurry to learn something I love talks and explanations that I can watch multiple times and still learn something new because I didn't fully understand it the first time. That's why I also sometimes watch these kinds of videos while working.
- Prcmaker 6y ago
  I've been having significant trouble sleeping the past few months. Even on calm-minded days, the second my head hits the pillow the stresses come back, I get worked up, and can't sleep. Rewatching his videos is one of the few things that has helped to quiet things down.
ivans_ 6y ago
Ben Eater singlehandedly got me into digital electronics. An incredible teacher!
- shriek 6y ago
  Likewise. I was tinkering with Arduino already but his videos got me hooked.
showerst 6y ago
I have his 6502 kit and the timer kit. They're both great! The videos are well explained and the kits are a really easy way to follow along.
mrspeaker 6y ago
This post has the (2019) tag on it, but just to note - I think the reason it was submitted today is that he just released a whole new part where he is hooking it up to his 6502 breadboard computer... and the "world's worst video card" is now also available as a kit!
- dang 6y ago
  A mod probably added the year - we'll take it out. Thanks! Previous thread for those who are curious: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20614129 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20614129
908B64B197 6y ago
I wish there was a version of these videos with comments by Steve Wozniak.
a1369209993 6y ago
Current submitted link (https://eater.net/vga https://eater.net/vga) is broken: > You need to enable JavaScript to view this site.
- recursive 6y ago
  Link is working as intended. Maybe your browser is broken.
  - zimmertr 6y ago
    I think it was a tongue-in-cheek joke about requiring Javascript.
    - recursive 6y ago
      It's possible. And mine was a joke about trying to browse the web with javascript turned off.
      - jakear 6y ago
        “I tried running your executable with all syscalls blocked and it didn’t work please fix”
delibes 6y ago
Hmm. The 6502 is/was often set up to access the memory only half the time. For example a 1MHz CPU would be interfaced with 2MHz memory, and access every other cycle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6502#Technical_description https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6502#Technical_... I guess Ben knows this, but avoided it for some reason. Perhaps interleaving the timing on a breadboard isn't that easy? Never tried it myself.
- cweagans 6y ago
  I've been watching his videos for a long time and as far as I can see, the goal is never technical sophistication or doing things in a "production ready" way. Rather, it's making the innards of a computer understandable. The way that he did it here, he could easily explain when and how the CPU had control of the bus and when the video card did _and_ he had a picture that he could point at to visually explain what was happening. I've also noticed that he'll start simple and then layer on more complex things as the series progresses. No idea if he's planning on doing that here, but a good example was with the 6502 computer where he implemented it out of the gate with no RAM so that the video could focus on getting things up and running.
  - Diederich 6y ago
    > Rather, it's making the innards of a computer understandable. Yes! Connected to this, he uses approaches that are biased toward simple implementation that 'mere mortals' can actually get working.
tyingq 6y ago
Another way to play around with a cheap "video card" is an ESP32 and the FabGL libraries. It's not retro-correct like the one in this post, but the cost is very low. LilyGo has an ESP32 board that already has VGA and PS/2 connectors for $11: https://www.tindie.com/products/ttgo/lilygor-ttgo-vga32_v14-controller/ https://www.tindie.com/products/ttgo/lilygor-ttgo-vga32_v14-... It's pretty neat that we now have microcontrollers that are fast enough to drive VGA at decent resolutions. The FabGL library: http://www.fabglib.org/ http://www.fabglib.org/
- bane 6y ago
  Here's an entire demoscene demo on a microcontroller. https://youtu.be/sNCqrylNY-0 https://youtu.be/sNCqrylNY-0
  - disqard 6y ago
    That's very neat, especially because it takes the demo idea and turns it into a tangible artifact!
Koshkin 6y ago
VGA was designed for CRTs. I am amazed how well it has been supported by digital monitors. Still, I am left wondering, how hard would it be to make something similar for a modern digital interface, say, DVI?
- jshap70 6y ago
  DVI is a very large spec. It supports everything from pure VGA over it's analog pins as well as full fledged HDMI (its actually the other way around, HDMI is secretly just DVI). Finding monitors which support all of the simpler modes is an issue, whereas finding monitors which support old school VGA is fairly easy.
  - garaetjjte 6y ago
    >its actually the other way around, HDMI is secretly just DVI HDMI signalling is actually extension of DVI, it embeds TERC4 data islands containing extra metadata and PCM audio during blanking interval. (yes, I was surprised at beginning but HDMI/DVI also have blanking periods just as VGA) https://warmcat.com/hardware%20design/hdmi/fpga/2015/10/21/hdmi-capture-and-analysis-fpga-project-2.html https://warmcat.com/hardware%20design/hdmi/fpga/2015/10/21/h...
    - deelowe 6y ago
      Thank you! I've been looking for something like this for ages. It's extremely difficult to find decent resources on the hdmi/dvi protocol.
      - garaetjjte 6y ago
        hamsterworks VHDL implementation might be also useful: https://web.archive.org/web/20190520020308/http://hamsterworks.co.nz/mediawiki/index.php/Minimal_DVI-D https://web.archive.org/web/20190520020308/http://hamsterwor... https://web.archive.org/web/20190520020602/http://hamsterworks.co.nz/mediawiki/index.php/Minimal_HDMI https://web.archive.org/web/20190520020602/http://hamsterwor...
      - 6y ago

267 points by captn3m0 6y ago

I've been following his videos for some time now. He also built an 8-bit CPU from scratch on breadboards, as well as a 6502 based computer also on bread boards. He's recently started the process of using the video card he made to output video from the 6502 computer. His videos are interesting and informative, and while he does offer kits to build all this stuff from his site, the part lists are there should you want to source your own (not always easy if you try to do it on the cheap and get your parts from the likes of Ali Express and Ebay). Overall his projects are fascinating for anyone with interest in retro computing or learning how computers work at the lowest level, and the videos are easy to follow and more than just a "how to put this together" tutorial.

Snitch-Thursday 6y ago
> Overall his projects are fascinating for anyone with interest in retro computing or learning how computers work at the lowest level I'm on the RAM-building portion of the 8-bit breadboard computer for exactly this reason. I wanted to bridge the gap between (this is an electric circuit that lights an LED) and (this is how you can take a simple inverter and a logic gate to build a D flip flop, which can power registers, SRAM, and more) and (this is an 8-bit example of a Von Neumann Architecture computer). His videos are perfect for that. Very well made and I don't have to take classes in circuit design or digital logic control & design at a college to learn the high level of how this works.
moron4hire 6y ago
I'm curious how well that works out, building something that complex on a breadboard. I had an FM radio project that gave me a lot of trouble until I realized the breadboard was introducing a lot of parasitic capacitance.
- OnACoffeeBreak 6y ago
  It works well for a learning project that doesn't push clock rates. This lets the nose introduced by the breadboard to settle before each clock edge. Also, bypass capacitors are key.
- 205guy 6y ago
  I got caught up in all his videos and had the same question. Fortunately, he has a dedicated video where he answers this with testing on the scope: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCbAafKLqC8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCbAafKLqC8 tl;dr is what the sibling comment already explained: low clock rates.
ihumanable 6y ago
Ben Eater's entire catalog is gold, he gets right to the meat of things, clearly explains what's happening, and makes the subject matter accessible and entertaining.
dkersten 6y ago
His 8-bit CPU series made me finally understand how microcode works. His videos are very clear and well explained.
- scarecrowbob 6y ago
  I will reiterate this. I dropped out of a CS program and had just a little knowledge, but I feel like this finally made the penny drop.

laszlokorte 6y ago

Exactly the right amount of explaination for each step he does. I could perfectly follow along and learned alot.

cpascal 6y ago

Here's a video in his 6502 series where he hooks up the 6502 computer he's been building with this video card. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iURr3NBprc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iURr3NBprc I highly recommend his videos and kits. He's a great teacher.

robinduckett 6y ago

I find his voice extremely calming so that it makes me snooze whenever I try to watch his videos, which is annoying because I have to rewind back to where I fell asleep to take in the content, which is extremely interesting.

JamesLeonis 6y ago
He's the Bob Ross of electronics. I find speeding up the video a tad helps keep my attention.
t0astbread 6y ago
If I'm not in a hurry to learn something I love talks and explanations that I can watch multiple times and still learn something new because I didn't fully understand it the first time. That's why I also sometimes watch these kinds of videos while working.
Prcmaker 6y ago
I've been having significant trouble sleeping the past few months. Even on calm-minded days, the second my head hits the pillow the stresses come back, I get worked up, and can't sleep. Rewatching his videos is one of the few things that has helped to quiet things down.

ivans_ 6y ago

Ben Eater singlehandedly got me into digital electronics. An incredible teacher!

shriek 6y ago
Likewise. I was tinkering with Arduino already but his videos got me hooked.

showerst 6y ago

I have his 6502 kit and the timer kit. They're both great! The videos are well explained and the kits are a really easy way to follow along.

mrspeaker 6y ago

This post has the (2019) tag on it, but just to note - I think the reason it was submitted today is that he just released a whole new part where he is hooking it up to his 6502 breadboard computer... and the "world's worst video card" is now also available as a kit!

dang 6y ago
A mod probably added the year - we'll take it out. Thanks! Previous thread for those who are curious: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20614129 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20614129

908B64B197 6y ago

I wish there was a version of these videos with comments by Steve Wozniak.

a1369209993 6y ago

Current submitted link (https://eater.net/vga https://eater.net/vga) is broken: > You need to enable JavaScript to view this site.

recursive 6y ago
Link is working as intended. Maybe your browser is broken.
- zimmertr 6y ago
  I think it was a tongue-in-cheek joke about requiring Javascript.
  - recursive 6y ago
    It's possible. And mine was a joke about trying to browse the web with javascript turned off.
    - jakear 6y ago
      “I tried running your executable with all syscalls blocked and it didn’t work please fix”

delibes 6y ago

Hmm. The 6502 is/was often set up to access the memory only half the time. For example a 1MHz CPU would be interfaced with 2MHz memory, and access every other cycle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6502#Technical_description https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6502#Technical_... I guess Ben knows this, but avoided it for some reason. Perhaps interleaving the timing on a breadboard isn't that easy? Never tried it myself.

cweagans 6y ago
I've been watching his videos for a long time and as far as I can see, the goal is never technical sophistication or doing things in a "production ready" way. Rather, it's making the innards of a computer understandable. The way that he did it here, he could easily explain when and how the CPU had control of the bus and when the video card did _and_ he had a picture that he could point at to visually explain what was happening. I've also noticed that he'll start simple and then layer on more complex things as the series progresses. No idea if he's planning on doing that here, but a good example was with the 6502 computer where he implemented it out of the gate with no RAM so that the video could focus on getting things up and running.
- Diederich 6y ago
  > Rather, it's making the innards of a computer understandable. Yes! Connected to this, he uses approaches that are biased toward simple implementation that 'mere mortals' can actually get working.

tyingq 6y ago

Another way to play around with a cheap "video card" is an ESP32 and the FabGL libraries. It's not retro-correct like the one in this post, but the cost is very low. LilyGo has an ESP32 board that already has VGA and PS/2 connectors for $11: https://www.tindie.com/products/ttgo/lilygor-ttgo-vga32_v14-controller/ https://www.tindie.com/products/ttgo/lilygor-ttgo-vga32_v14-... It's pretty neat that we now have microcontrollers that are fast enough to drive VGA at decent resolutions. The FabGL library: http://www.fabglib.org/ http://www.fabglib.org/

bane 6y ago
Here's an entire demoscene demo on a microcontroller. https://youtu.be/sNCqrylNY-0 https://youtu.be/sNCqrylNY-0
- disqard 6y ago
  That's very neat, especially because it takes the demo idea and turns it into a tangible artifact!

Koshkin 6y ago

VGA was designed for CRTs. I am amazed how well it has been supported by digital monitors. Still, I am left wondering, how hard would it be to make something similar for a modern digital interface, say, DVI?

jshap70 6y ago
DVI is a very large spec. It supports everything from pure VGA over it's analog pins as well as full fledged HDMI (its actually the other way around, HDMI is secretly just DVI). Finding monitors which support all of the simpler modes is an issue, whereas finding monitors which support old school VGA is fairly easy.
- garaetjjte 6y ago
  >its actually the other way around, HDMI is secretly just DVI HDMI signalling is actually extension of DVI, it embeds TERC4 data islands containing extra metadata and PCM audio during blanking interval. (yes, I was surprised at beginning but HDMI/DVI also have blanking periods just as VGA) https://warmcat.com/hardware%20design/hdmi/fpga/2015/10/21/hdmi-capture-and-analysis-fpga-project-2.html https://warmcat.com/hardware%20design/hdmi/fpga/2015/10/21/h...
  - deelowe 6y ago
    Thank you! I've been looking for something like this for ages. It's extremely difficult to find decent resources on the hdmi/dvi protocol.
    - garaetjjte 6y ago
      hamsterworks VHDL implementation might be also useful: https://web.archive.org/web/20190520020308/http://hamsterworks.co.nz/mediawiki/index.php/Minimal_DVI-D https://web.archive.org/web/20190520020308/http://hamsterwor... https://web.archive.org/web/20190520020602/http://hamsterworks.co.nz/mediawiki/index.php/Minimal_HDMI https://web.archive.org/web/20190520020602/http://hamsterwor...
    - 6y ago