4 ms·

Well that is the crux of the issue, how much do you trust your government and what are your options in supporting change. This may require a level of involvemen

Well that is the crux of the issue, how much do you trust your government and what are your options in supporting change. This may require a level of involvement in politics that is more time consuming than most want to expend or can. This means if not actively supporting a candidate or current representative who shares your views that you instead convince them your view is worthwhile. If not actively finding one who does. Then even once that is accomplished you likely will need to be involved in writing to other representatives as well and coordinating with similarly minded groups across your country. Politics is all about the networking to get enough voices to be heard and for something as arcane as encryption; and yes it is arcane for most; will not have as many groups focused on it. So your work is cut out for yourself in finding such groups or forming one. in the US we have EFF and others; I am found of cato but many here do not understand libertarians. the truly sad part is most people really would be happy living in a police state as long as you don't call it one. they don't recognize how they could be in one because their view of what a police state is very heavily influenced by the media and even hollywood. most of what hollywood presents is truly exaggerated dystopian types that are borderline absurd but in truth it is the slow chipping away if not giving away of rights that does the same

marcus_holmes 6y ago
This. It gets framed as "encryption = child abuse" and anyone who supports private encryption is obviously a pedo. There doesn't appear to be an emotional argument the other way - I guess "so you're happy with random police officers[0] browsing your nudes, then?". It needs to be framed as an emotional argument, because that's what cuts through to the audience these days. Only HN is interested in logical discussions ;) [0] Actually, not even police officers - there is always an escalation of government departments able to access data that was originally captured to prevent serious crime.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > so you're happy with random police officers[0] browsing your nudes, then? Your kids’ photos. Many people don’t have nudes on their phones. Most people do have photos of their kids and know their kids have sensitive photos of themselves. “Think of the children” can be flipped if you can get the public suspicious of spooks.
- foldr 6y ago
  >I guess "so you're happy with random police officers[0] browsing your nudes, then?". I agree with your point, but I think a lot of people aren't actually too worried about the specific case of random police officers seeing their nude selfies.
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    It's hard to convey the idea that a real person is behind the faceless snooping, but usually people don't want a real person looking at their private info. "Do you want the cop who pulls your daughter over for forgetting to put the new sticker on her license plate to be able to look up all her beach photos during the stop?"
    - stjohnswarts 6y ago
      Cops want to be able to see everything. I don't think it comes necessarily from want to see nude in particular. Government likes power, the more they get, the more they want. That includes cops. They can't think beyond their own mind often. Most people would probably (at the beginning) use backdoors responsibly, but when it becomes mundane they will use it all the time and without compuncture. This leads to power grabs and politicization. If it's not an option at all, it helps a lot.
      - marcus_holmes 6y ago
        This. Hence the proliferation of government access to CCTV footage that was originally collected for "serious crime" only. It'll start out with "we only need to break your e2e encryption for serious crime cases", but in 10 years your local council will be breaking into your dm's to see if you used the right recycling bin.
stjohnswarts 6y ago
I appreciate libertarian ideas about privacy, freedom to own weapons, speech, religion, etc. I just don't agree with them a whole lot on economic issues, but they have personal freedom down pat. I think the point about government isn't that I'm so worried about the government --currently--, but I know government almost never gives something back that they take away. In this case it's privacy. Hopefully the EU government (or at least the members of the EU individually) will realize this is an autocratic power grab and doesn't make anyone safer. You'd think they'd have had enough with dictators and autocratic governments knowing everything you do given what happened in WW1 and WW2

marcus_holmes 6y ago

This. It gets framed as "encryption = child abuse" and anyone who supports private encryption is obviously a pedo. There doesn't appear to be an emotional argument the other way - I guess "so you're happy with random police officers[0] browsing your nudes, then?". It needs to be framed as an emotional argument, because that's what cuts through to the audience these days. Only HN is interested in logical discussions ;) [0] Actually, not even police officers - there is always an escalation of government departments able to access data that was originally captured to prevent serious crime.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> so you're happy with random police officers[0] browsing your nudes, then? Your kids’ photos. Many people don’t have nudes on their phones. Most people do have photos of their kids and know their kids have sensitive photos of themselves. “Think of the children” can be flipped if you can get the public suspicious of spooks.
foldr 6y ago
>I guess "so you're happy with random police officers[0] browsing your nudes, then?". I agree with your point, but I think a lot of people aren't actually too worried about the specific case of random police officers seeing their nude selfies.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  It's hard to convey the idea that a real person is behind the faceless snooping, but usually people don't want a real person looking at their private info. "Do you want the cop who pulls your daughter over for forgetting to put the new sticker on her license plate to be able to look up all her beach photos during the stop?"
  - stjohnswarts 6y ago
    Cops want to be able to see everything. I don't think it comes necessarily from want to see nude in particular. Government likes power, the more they get, the more they want. That includes cops. They can't think beyond their own mind often. Most people would probably (at the beginning) use backdoors responsibly, but when it becomes mundane they will use it all the time and without compuncture. This leads to power grabs and politicization. If it's not an option at all, it helps a lot.
    - marcus_holmes 6y ago
      This. Hence the proliferation of government access to CCTV footage that was originally collected for "serious crime" only. It'll start out with "we only need to break your e2e encryption for serious crime cases", but in 10 years your local council will be breaking into your dm's to see if you used the right recycling bin.

stjohnswarts 6y ago

I appreciate libertarian ideas about privacy, freedom to own weapons, speech, religion, etc. I just don't agree with them a whole lot on economic issues, but they have personal freedom down pat. I think the point about government isn't that I'm so worried about the government --currently--, but I know government almost never gives something back that they take away. In this case it's privacy. Hopefully the EU government (or at least the members of the EU individually) will realize this is an autocratic power grab and doesn't make anyone safer. You'd think they'd have had enough with dictators and autocratic governments knowing everything you do given what happened in WW1 and WW2