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The problem is that if you don't count iphones and tablets then computer usage is going down. So progress is now going backwards, fewer and fewer kids have acce

The problem is that if you don't count iphones and tablets then computer usage is going down. So progress is now going backwards, fewer and fewer kids have access to a real computer. All that is left is to launch a similarly locked down laptop to eliminate almost all computer usage for the coming generations. Google already started it with Chromebook (which is super popular in schools, guess why...) but I bet apple (and microsoft?) will do something similar pretty soon.

emteycz 6y ago
'Real computer' usage is very arbitrary definition of progress. Do people need real computers? Are their lives not improving because they don't have a real computer? I don't think either is true. Real computers are available everywhere for very low prices, if they need it, they have every possible opportunity to get it. Additionally, isn't it possible that a person wants to use an iPhone alongside their real computer? I know many people like that - my programmer friends included.
- whywhywhywhy 6y ago
  >Are their lives not improving because they don't have a real computer? I mean I'd personally say people's lives have gotten worse because of the iPhone and iPad.
  - emteycz 6y ago
    The same can be said about Android devices. And I don't think it would be any different if the devices were Real Computers.
    - whywhywhywhy 6y ago
      Nah, smartphones existed before the iPhone but they were tools. The changes the iPhone brought is what changed them from being tools to what they are today and Real Computers still don't exhibit the toxic anxiety and depression inducing habits that modern smartphones cause. If a computer is in a room people can walk away from it without interacting with it for 30 minutes, not sure people can even manage 5 minutes from their phones.
      - emteycz 6y ago
        Did you own a smartphone before the iPhone came out? I did, more than one. It was not a tool, it was nearly useless, useful only for basic plaintext e-mailing, SSH, and very very basic games. It was the new Real Computer-alike capabilities (CPU instruction sets, OS and the libraries, RAM and storage amounts - Windows Mobile 6 was incomparable shit) of iPhone and subsequent Android-based devices that made these devices actual tools, capable of browsing the web and enough performance for games and apps, and these same capabilities were what made them the social plague. Seems like we need less Real Computers in the world, not more...
        whywhywhywhy 6y ago
        Real Computers could so all that before smartphones, why did the same not happen to them and why are they still not as damaging as smartphones then if computation power is the cause?
        emteycz 6y ago
        People absolutely did spend absurd amount of hours obsessing over social networks and games before smartphones became commonplace. Smartphones are Real Computers, and that's why they're at least as damaging as PCs are. On top of that: - 3G internet became commonplace and cheap enough to be connected nonstop - Support for battery-efficient push notifications integrated into the OS - Internet (social networking) ads became what they are - Micro transactions and internet payments became commonplace
rhodysurf 6y ago
Counter point, chromebooks are now fully capable Linux machines through containers and it’s fully supported by google
- jacobush 6y ago
  Ah the dreams of yore, unlimited time on the mainframe owned by some draconian tech giant. Now fulfilled, in exchange for data about yourself.
  - josephcsible 6y ago
    The containers run locally on the Chromebooks, not in the cloud.
    - jacobush 6y ago
      So you get a little private room in the basement of Google account house. Thanks massa.
josephcsible 6y ago
Chromebooks aren't locked down. You can put them in developer mode and replace the entire OS with one of your choosing, without needing any jailbreaks or exploits.
whomst 6y ago
I wonder how much VPSes and the like have offset this. I know a lot of people that do all development stuff through some sort of remote desktop/SSH. I can see high schools just offering free AWS/Azure/GCP credits to the students, or maybe just student clubs depending on how its funded. I'm planning to buy the iPad Air/iPad Pro with the Magic Keyboard to do everything either over RDP or on the device itself (already own an iPad + Apple Pencil). I'm a Math student primarily, so most of my time is spent using the pencil and not as much with a keyboard and trackpad.

emteycz 6y ago

'Real computer' usage is very arbitrary definition of progress. Do people need real computers? Are their lives not improving because they don't have a real computer? I don't think either is true. Real computers are available everywhere for very low prices, if they need it, they have every possible opportunity to get it. Additionally, isn't it possible that a person wants to use an iPhone alongside their real computer? I know many people like that - my programmer friends included.

whywhywhywhy 6y ago
>Are their lives not improving because they don't have a real computer? I mean I'd personally say people's lives have gotten worse because of the iPhone and iPad.
- emteycz 6y ago
  The same can be said about Android devices. And I don't think it would be any different if the devices were Real Computers.
  - whywhywhywhy 6y ago
    Nah, smartphones existed before the iPhone but they were tools. The changes the iPhone brought is what changed them from being tools to what they are today and Real Computers still don't exhibit the toxic anxiety and depression inducing habits that modern smartphones cause. If a computer is in a room people can walk away from it without interacting with it for 30 minutes, not sure people can even manage 5 minutes from their phones.
    - emteycz 6y ago
      Did you own a smartphone before the iPhone came out? I did, more than one. It was not a tool, it was nearly useless, useful only for basic plaintext e-mailing, SSH, and very very basic games. It was the new Real Computer-alike capabilities (CPU instruction sets, OS and the libraries, RAM and storage amounts - Windows Mobile 6 was incomparable shit) of iPhone and subsequent Android-based devices that made these devices actual tools, capable of browsing the web and enough performance for games and apps, and these same capabilities were what made them the social plague. Seems like we need less Real Computers in the world, not more...
      - whywhywhywhy 6y ago
        Real Computers could so all that before smartphones, why did the same not happen to them and why are they still not as damaging as smartphones then if computation power is the cause?
        emteycz 6y ago
        People absolutely did spend absurd amount of hours obsessing over social networks and games before smartphones became commonplace. Smartphones are Real Computers, and that's why they're at least as damaging as PCs are. On top of that: - 3G internet became commonplace and cheap enough to be connected nonstop - Support for battery-efficient push notifications integrated into the OS - Internet (social networking) ads became what they are - Micro transactions and internet payments became commonplace

rhodysurf 6y ago

Counter point, chromebooks are now fully capable Linux machines through containers and it’s fully supported by google

jacobush 6y ago
Ah the dreams of yore, unlimited time on the mainframe owned by some draconian tech giant. Now fulfilled, in exchange for data about yourself.
- josephcsible 6y ago
  The containers run locally on the Chromebooks, not in the cloud.
  - jacobush 6y ago
    So you get a little private room in the basement of Google account house. Thanks massa.

josephcsible 6y ago

Chromebooks aren't locked down. You can put them in developer mode and replace the entire OS with one of your choosing, without needing any jailbreaks or exploits.

whomst 6y ago

I wonder how much VPSes and the like have offset this. I know a lot of people that do all development stuff through some sort of remote desktop/SSH. I can see high schools just offering free AWS/Azure/GCP credits to the students, or maybe just student clubs depending on how its funded. I'm planning to buy the iPad Air/iPad Pro with the Magic Keyboard to do everything either over RDP or on the device itself (already own an iPad + Apple Pencil). I'm a Math student primarily, so most of my time is spent using the pencil and not as much with a keyboard and trackpad.