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> Switzerland and several other Eurpean countries have very high rates of gun ownership, but low rates of gun violence. They also have vastly stricter gun regu

> Switzerland and several other Eurpean countries have very high rates of gun ownership, but low rates of gun violence. They also have vastly stricter gun regulation laws, and while ownership rates are high in some, the US is an extreme outlier and no other country comes even close. Because nobody in any European country thinks they have a "right" to own a gun, most of them could if they wanted to, but they simply don't want to deal with the hassle that owning a properly regulated firearm entails. As it should be, owning a deadly weapon is a lot of responsibility that not everybody is up for/actually wants. The importance of that responsibility gets completely lost when firearms are treated like cool toys that everybody should have and exist in abundance. That's why headlines like "toddler shoots mother" or "dog shoots owner" don't exist in Europe, but are a sad somewhat regular thing out of the US. These toddlers and dogs didn't do that because they watched too much violent media, they did that because the actual owners of the guns where irresponsible individuals and never should have owned one in the first place.

jordanbeiber 6y ago
The fact so many people feel they need a gun for safety is the first and biggest issue IMO. This is fueled by movies and culture - have the gun in your possession and you’ll automatically win the fight - that was easy! I’ve read countless comments from Americans that they have a gun to shoot intruders. Statistics telling you there’s a bigger chance someone else will get hurt be damned. These ideas are have to be fueled by big money is my guess. Also we humans really like our toys, so I can get that aspect of it. Wanna take my toy? Forget about it.
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  It's the wild west mentality that the US never grew out of. Can't blame them either, given the apparent incompetence of the police. It's an issue that won't be solved by banning weapons. Educating people (e.g. mandatory background checks, operation and safety training, and safe storage) and solving the underlying problems will work. I mean a lot cite defense from home invasions as the reason to own a gun. Why do people invade homes? If they had a reasonable income and comfortable life they wouldn't have a reason to.
  - agensaequivocum 6y ago
    > mandatory background checks, This is only effective with a gun registry which gun owners will not accept. > operation and safety training Are you required to take civics to vote? > safe storage If you simply mean prosecution for being negligent, that's fine. If you mean it has to be in a safe unloaded, that defeats their use for self-defense in the home. It would likely be held unconstitutional.
- jfk13 6y ago
  > Statistics telling you there’s a bigger chance someone else will get hurt be damned Nobody believes the statistics are relevant to them. Statistics are about all those dumb other people; but I'm always the smart, responsible exception.
  - NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
    As I mentioned elsewhere, I think those urban-legend statistics are probably wrong in aggregate. That said, people do have knowledge about their specific situation that they bring to bear in a valid way. Crazy, violent ex? Yeah, your ratio of chances of using a gun in a way that makes sense to chances of accidentally hurting someone is way better than average.
- bigbizisverywyz 6y ago
  >The fact so many people feel they need a gun for safety is the first and biggest issue IMO. And the reason for that is simple - marketing. Here in Switzerland I basically see no guns unless I go to the shooting club. There's none sold in the shops, there's none advertised in newspapers, tv or on the radio. And there is definitely no gun offered when opening a bank account. Basically if you want a gun for whatever reason - usually for recreational shooting at the shooting club, then you have to go out and look for it. In the US I have the feeling that they're marketed as a penis extension, and you're not a proper man unless you shoot things, with the view that you'd be quite happy to project a slug of lead into somebody else at high velocity to prove you're more of a man than they are. To solve the problem in the US I think you need to ban the advertising - like cigarettes. Caution: This weapon inflicts pain suffering and death to others. User may be incarcerated for murder if ever used. If in a situation of conflict, gun only increases likelihood of extreme violence - leave at home.
  - KMag 6y ago
    I spent over 30 years in the U.S., mostly in the upper Midwest, and the only gun advertisements I remember seeing were in sporting magazines or in sporting goods stores. I think your perceptions of U.S. gun advertising is either greatly exaggerated, or your experience is from a very different part of the country. Maybe things have changed drastically in the 8 years since I left, but I doubt it.
    - NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
      Agreed, people who aren't in to firearms or firearms-related sports will basically never see an ad for a gun in the U.S. I do think the penis-extension bit gets the gist of much of the marketing that does exist right, though.
    - jordanbeiber 6y ago
      I’d say action movie content serves as massive marketing. American film is stacked with guns. It’s kind of ridiculous. There have to be money involved.
    - 6y ago
- NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
  I think you're on the mark talking about them as toys for adults. I don't think most people want them because they really fear for their safety without, though the ability to defend oneself may be a bonus. My feeling is mostly it's just a fun hobby and it's also a clear signal of group membership. I think your claim about there being a higher chance of accidental injury vs. self defense is probably wrong. The issue is a little muddy, but there are only ~800 firearms accidental deaths per year (0.00024% of pop.) and about 50,000 self-defense uses per year (https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf) I'm also not convinced about movies. I bet other places have very similar mixes of actual watching and the same selection given the internet.
  - jordanbeiber 6y ago
    You might be right about the injury thing. I still believe many people see guns as a solution to a problem and on top of that vastly overrate their own abilities in a pressure situation. If you’ve not trained many many hours in a setting resembling this pressure to a high degree you really have no idea how you’ll react. It seems really easy in movies! Can’t speak for the source but first hit on google: http://features.hollywoodreporter.com/the-gun-industrys-lucrative-relationship-with-hollywood/ http://features.hollywoodreporter.com/the-gun-industrys-lucr...
    - NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
      Agree that serious training seems necessary.
- agensaequivocum 6y ago
  > This is fueled by movies and culture - have the gun in your possession and you’ll automatically win the fight No. It's not automatic. But my wife has a much better chance against a 250lb 6ft man with one than without one.
  - jordanbeiber 6y ago
    That is still assuming a lot of things IMO. I’d love to see stats on these scenarios... are they common?
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  People who would like to take guns away should start working on changing the Constitution. Looking at the current lineup in the Supreme court all I can say is good luck. I totally support a country's choice to de-arm their populace. However I also wish they would quit trying to push their beliefs on the USA as well. Nothing in this world is safe, from driving to work, to walking down a street you don't know, to repelling off a cliff, or parachuting for fun yet no one says "don't do that, let's make it illegal", yet with guns they freak out.
NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
Saying Switzerland has "vastly" stricter gun laws /might/ be true if mushing the U.S. into a whole, but it ignores the very important variations at the state level. Some states have very strict regimes that compare to Switzerland's, and in some you can just walk into a store and buy long guns if you're of age. I totally agree about the responsibility thing. Concerning the "dog shoots owner" headlines, you should ignore that sort of thing. Those sorts of incidents are super rare. They hit headlines /because/ they're rare and therefore interesting.
- freeflight 6y ago
  > Some states have very strict regimes that compare to Switzerland's, and in some you can just walk into a store and buy long guns if you're of age. Which is exactly why the regulation in the US does not work; Anybody who disagrees with their states particular laws can just cross into another state to get their fix there. That why any proper regulation needs to happen on a federal level so individual states won't act as a loophole. > Concerning the "dog shoots owner" headlines, you should ignore that sort of thing. Those sorts of incidents are super rare. They hit headlines /because/ they're rare and therefore interesting. It's something that should be non-existent, I haven't seen it anywhere else in the world. But only a couple of days ago there was yet another example out of the US [0]. These are the kind of absurd situations that simply do not happen in any other place as other places lack the "firearm saturation" that enables this in the US. So something that should be improbable, still ends up being a regular thing. [0] https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/dog-accidentally-shoots-owner-in-the-leg-plano-police/2473904/ https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/dog-accidentally-shoots-ow...
  - agensaequivocum 6y ago
    > Anybody who disagrees with their states particular laws can just cross into another state to get their fix there. If you mean purchase something you cannot buy in your state, that's not true. Interstate handgun purchases are completely banned and long guns can only be sold if the sale complies with both state laws.
    - 6y ago

jordanbeiber 6y ago

The fact so many people feel they need a gun for safety is the first and biggest issue IMO. This is fueled by movies and culture - have the gun in your possession and you’ll automatically win the fight - that was easy! I’ve read countless comments from Americans that they have a gun to shoot intruders. Statistics telling you there’s a bigger chance someone else will get hurt be damned. These ideas are have to be fueled by big money is my guess. Also we humans really like our toys, so I can get that aspect of it. Wanna take my toy? Forget about it.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago
It's the wild west mentality that the US never grew out of. Can't blame them either, given the apparent incompetence of the police. It's an issue that won't be solved by banning weapons. Educating people (e.g. mandatory background checks, operation and safety training, and safe storage) and solving the underlying problems will work. I mean a lot cite defense from home invasions as the reason to own a gun. Why do people invade homes? If they had a reasonable income and comfortable life they wouldn't have a reason to.
- agensaequivocum 6y ago
  > mandatory background checks, This is only effective with a gun registry which gun owners will not accept. > operation and safety training Are you required to take civics to vote? > safe storage If you simply mean prosecution for being negligent, that's fine. If you mean it has to be in a safe unloaded, that defeats their use for self-defense in the home. It would likely be held unconstitutional.
jfk13 6y ago
> Statistics telling you there’s a bigger chance someone else will get hurt be damned Nobody believes the statistics are relevant to them. Statistics are about all those dumb other people; but I'm always the smart, responsible exception.
- NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
  As I mentioned elsewhere, I think those urban-legend statistics are probably wrong in aggregate. That said, people do have knowledge about their specific situation that they bring to bear in a valid way. Crazy, violent ex? Yeah, your ratio of chances of using a gun in a way that makes sense to chances of accidentally hurting someone is way better than average.
bigbizisverywyz 6y ago
>The fact so many people feel they need a gun for safety is the first and biggest issue IMO. And the reason for that is simple - marketing. Here in Switzerland I basically see no guns unless I go to the shooting club. There's none sold in the shops, there's none advertised in newspapers, tv or on the radio. And there is definitely no gun offered when opening a bank account. Basically if you want a gun for whatever reason - usually for recreational shooting at the shooting club, then you have to go out and look for it. In the US I have the feeling that they're marketed as a penis extension, and you're not a proper man unless you shoot things, with the view that you'd be quite happy to project a slug of lead into somebody else at high velocity to prove you're more of a man than they are. To solve the problem in the US I think you need to ban the advertising - like cigarettes. Caution: This weapon inflicts pain suffering and death to others. User may be incarcerated for murder if ever used. If in a situation of conflict, gun only increases likelihood of extreme violence - leave at home.
- KMag 6y ago
  I spent over 30 years in the U.S., mostly in the upper Midwest, and the only gun advertisements I remember seeing were in sporting magazines or in sporting goods stores. I think your perceptions of U.S. gun advertising is either greatly exaggerated, or your experience is from a very different part of the country. Maybe things have changed drastically in the 8 years since I left, but I doubt it.
  - NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
    Agreed, people who aren't in to firearms or firearms-related sports will basically never see an ad for a gun in the U.S. I do think the penis-extension bit gets the gist of much of the marketing that does exist right, though.
  - jordanbeiber 6y ago
    I’d say action movie content serves as massive marketing. American film is stacked with guns. It’s kind of ridiculous. There have to be money involved.
  - 6y ago
NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
I think you're on the mark talking about them as toys for adults. I don't think most people want them because they really fear for their safety without, though the ability to defend oneself may be a bonus. My feeling is mostly it's just a fun hobby and it's also a clear signal of group membership. I think your claim about there being a higher chance of accidental injury vs. self defense is probably wrong. The issue is a little muddy, but there are only ~800 firearms accidental deaths per year (0.00024% of pop.) and about 50,000 self-defense uses per year (https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf) I'm also not convinced about movies. I bet other places have very similar mixes of actual watching and the same selection given the internet.
- jordanbeiber 6y ago
  You might be right about the injury thing. I still believe many people see guns as a solution to a problem and on top of that vastly overrate their own abilities in a pressure situation. If you’ve not trained many many hours in a setting resembling this pressure to a high degree you really have no idea how you’ll react. It seems really easy in movies! Can’t speak for the source but first hit on google: http://features.hollywoodreporter.com/the-gun-industrys-lucrative-relationship-with-hollywood/ http://features.hollywoodreporter.com/the-gun-industrys-lucr...
  - NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
    Agree that serious training seems necessary.
agensaequivocum 6y ago
> This is fueled by movies and culture - have the gun in your possession and you’ll automatically win the fight No. It's not automatic. But my wife has a much better chance against a 250lb 6ft man with one than without one.
- jordanbeiber 6y ago
  That is still assuming a lot of things IMO. I’d love to see stats on these scenarios... are they common?
stjohnswarts 6y ago
People who would like to take guns away should start working on changing the Constitution. Looking at the current lineup in the Supreme court all I can say is good luck. I totally support a country's choice to de-arm their populace. However I also wish they would quit trying to push their beliefs on the USA as well. Nothing in this world is safe, from driving to work, to walking down a street you don't know, to repelling off a cliff, or parachuting for fun yet no one says "don't do that, let's make it illegal", yet with guns they freak out.

NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago

Saying Switzerland has "vastly" stricter gun laws /might/ be true if mushing the U.S. into a whole, but it ignores the very important variations at the state level. Some states have very strict regimes that compare to Switzerland's, and in some you can just walk into a store and buy long guns if you're of age. I totally agree about the responsibility thing. Concerning the "dog shoots owner" headlines, you should ignore that sort of thing. Those sorts of incidents are super rare. They hit headlines /because/ they're rare and therefore interesting.

freeflight 6y ago
> Some states have very strict regimes that compare to Switzerland's, and in some you can just walk into a store and buy long guns if you're of age. Which is exactly why the regulation in the US does not work; Anybody who disagrees with their states particular laws can just cross into another state to get their fix there. That why any proper regulation needs to happen on a federal level so individual states won't act as a loophole. > Concerning the "dog shoots owner" headlines, you should ignore that sort of thing. Those sorts of incidents are super rare. They hit headlines /because/ they're rare and therefore interesting. It's something that should be non-existent, I haven't seen it anywhere else in the world. But only a couple of days ago there was yet another example out of the US [0]. These are the kind of absurd situations that simply do not happen in any other place as other places lack the "firearm saturation" that enables this in the US. So something that should be improbable, still ends up being a regular thing. [0] https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/dog-accidentally-shoots-owner-in-the-leg-plano-police/2473904/ https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/dog-accidentally-shoots-ow...
- agensaequivocum 6y ago
  > Anybody who disagrees with their states particular laws can just cross into another state to get their fix there. If you mean purchase something you cannot buy in your state, that's not true. Interstate handgun purchases are completely banned and long guns can only be sold if the sale complies with both state laws.
  - 6y ago