4 ms·

Well if you believe Wyoming should just be steamrolled by California's desires 100% of the time, why shouldn't Wyoming secede from the union? In fact, why shoul

by umvi 6y ago

Well if you believe Wyoming should just be steamrolled by California's desires 100% of the time, why shouldn't Wyoming secede from the union? In fact, why should any "small states" join the union in the first place if they are just going to be steamrolled by California and New York?

tastyfreeze 6y ago
Being from Alaska I would argue that my vote for president has never counted. Some years there is a decision before my polls close.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  Your state doesn't start counting mail in ballots until a week after election. Given the logistical challenge you ought to be simply mailing out ballots sooner and counting them as they come in. Every other state avoids duplication between mail and in person voting without waiting a week between polls and ballots.
majormajor 6y ago
I would love small states to secede... I think, though, that they would realize they need the big states to pay for shit, protect them, etc...
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  This is a red herring. All the states are only a few % away from net neutral when it comes to federal money in vs out. Pretty much any state could go it alone from a monetary perspective. Trade agreements would be the hard part. Also, I think you're greatly mis-judging how a deal to the tune of "be 5% poorer but do 100% listening to what the people on the coasts have to say" sounds to e.g. the midwest. You say that like it's an obvious bad deal. I don't think all of them would agree with you on that though. They might just take you up on it given the option.
  - majormajor 6y ago
    I'm unconvinced that I'd be any worse off if, say, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, and the Dakotas left. Again, right now, I'd like them to take me up on it. Their citizens' voting power is so much greater than mine, it is infuriating.
- umvi 6y ago
  Canada and EU don't seem to mind having tiny militaries and relying on the US protecting them. Small states can just be their own countries that pay some small % of GDP for USA to protect them with military.
DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
Because if they leave, they'll have the pleasure of getting steamrolled by other countries, including the United States. Fundamentally, you're making an argument against democracy, and in favor of giving people who live in small states greater influence than people who live in large states. A person who moves a few miles across the border from Colorado to Wyoming suddenly sees their vote count for 3 times as much in the Electoral College. It gets even crazier once you start considering how swing states play into this. Your vote makes no difference in most states. But there are a few states where your vote might count, for the sole reason that those states happen to be evenly balanced. It's a ridiculous, irrational system. It was the best that could be negotiated in 1787, but it doesn't make sense in 2020.
- umvi 6y ago
  So would you say Canada (the entire country of which has a smaller population than California) regularly gets steamrolled by other countries, including USA? And if not, then maybe all the small states need to do is band together into their own country, away from large state bullies
  - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
    Sometimes it does. It certainly doesn't get the preferential treatment from the US that Wyoming gets. Would the US treat Wyoming better as a state or as a foreign country? Just as importantly, how much leverage would Wyoming have in dealing with foreign countries? How much leverage would it have in trade negotiations with the EU, or with the US, for that matter?

by umvi 6y ago

tastyfreeze 6y ago

Being from Alaska I would argue that my vote for president has never counted. Some years there is a decision before my polls close.

michaelmrose 6y ago
Your state doesn't start counting mail in ballots until a week after election. Given the logistical challenge you ought to be simply mailing out ballots sooner and counting them as they come in. Every other state avoids duplication between mail and in person voting without waiting a week between polls and ballots.

majormajor 6y ago

I would love small states to secede... I think, though, that they would realize they need the big states to pay for shit, protect them, etc...

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
This is a red herring. All the states are only a few % away from net neutral when it comes to federal money in vs out. Pretty much any state could go it alone from a monetary perspective. Trade agreements would be the hard part. Also, I think you're greatly mis-judging how a deal to the tune of "be 5% poorer but do 100% listening to what the people on the coasts have to say" sounds to e.g. the midwest. You say that like it's an obvious bad deal. I don't think all of them would agree with you on that though. They might just take you up on it given the option.
- majormajor 6y ago
  I'm unconvinced that I'd be any worse off if, say, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, and the Dakotas left. Again, right now, I'd like them to take me up on it. Their citizens' voting power is so much greater than mine, it is infuriating.
umvi 6y ago
Canada and EU don't seem to mind having tiny militaries and relying on the US protecting them. Small states can just be their own countries that pay some small % of GDP for USA to protect them with military.

DiogenesKynikos 6y ago

Because if they leave, they'll have the pleasure of getting steamrolled by other countries, including the United States. Fundamentally, you're making an argument against democracy, and in favor of giving people who live in small states greater influence than people who live in large states. A person who moves a few miles across the border from Colorado to Wyoming suddenly sees their vote count for 3 times as much in the Electoral College. It gets even crazier once you start considering how swing states play into this. Your vote makes no difference in most states. But there are a few states where your vote might count, for the sole reason that those states happen to be evenly balanced. It's a ridiculous, irrational system. It was the best that could be negotiated in 1787, but it doesn't make sense in 2020.

umvi 6y ago
So would you say Canada (the entire country of which has a smaller population than California) regularly gets steamrolled by other countries, including USA? And if not, then maybe all the small states need to do is band together into their own country, away from large state bullies
- DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
  Sometimes it does. It certainly doesn't get the preferential treatment from the US that Wyoming gets. Would the US treat Wyoming better as a state or as a foreign country? Just as importantly, how much leverage would Wyoming have in dealing with foreign countries? How much leverage would it have in trade negotiations with the EU, or with the US, for that matter?