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>They've become their own banana republic. It's insane that you would compare selling a superior product on a largely free market, to a CIA-backed coup of a fo

>They've become their own banana republic. It's insane that you would compare selling a superior product on a largely free market, to a CIA-backed coup of a foreign independent nation. Can you please point to me to the people Apple murdered to capture their market? This is some incredible anti-Apple rhetoric. Meanwhile, in our currently implemented "open" platform you have engineers running amok with the personal data of millions of Americans.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
echelon 6y ago
> incredible anti-Apple rhetoric And it's crazy you think that's wrong! Stop worshipping the device in your pocket and protect our industry! Apple is a foe. Living in their ecosystem is like living in a Communist dictatorship. Say or do the wrong thing and they take your app own to the gallows and kill it. Do. Not. Worship. This.
- zepto 6y ago
  Do you own an Apple device? Have you ever lived in a communist dictatorship or even visited one? I have
  - echelon 6y ago
    > Do you own an Apple device? Yes. > Have you ever lived in a communist dictatorship or even visited one? Yes. I spent a year studying Chinese in Shanghai. My partner is from Vietnam. What's your point? I stand behind my analogy. Apple is a horrible company and is ruining our industry.
    - zepto 6y ago
      Why do you own an Apple device?
      - kaba0 6y ago
        Not op, but hardware and UX-wise they do a great job. Photo-taking is especially good which is pretty important on a mobile. Also, their phones will be supported for a remarkable number of years, while retaining their price on second hand markets. It doesn’t excuse them from letting me use my phone as I want to.
        zepto 6y ago
        The op should respond since they seem to feel imprisoned, but you do not. It sounds like you just like the quality of their product. Apple does let you use the phone as you want to. They just didn’t design it to do the things you say you’d prefer. I assume that you wouldn’t have made the trade off if you didn’t think it was worth it. Liking a product enough to buy while wanting it to be designed a little differently is what we do with almost all purchases. That is pretty much the opposite of living in a communist dictatorship.
        kaba0 6y ago
        Well, I don’t feel inprisoned, but nor am I completely happy with this phone. iSH is really great, and is a must - and so would several other app which can’t exist here.
        zepto 6y ago
        I presume those apps can exist on Android. The point here is that you can actually get everting you want, just not with Apple’s design.
- nemothekid 6y ago
  No, the fundamental error you are making is you, the developer, are incorrectly assuming, that I, the user, cares about whether Apple lets you make money or do whatever they want on my device. Even the way the worded your response you are making a plea as a developer to a user "hey take your app own to the gallows and kill it.". I don't have an app. What I do understand is; given the last 20 years of computing is that developers broadly cannot be trusted to run software on my device and I don't have the time to inspect the source code of every app. What I have decided is that I can trust Apple to be the gatekeeper to my device and if you can't play by their rules you won't have access to their official distribution processes. If I, the user, decide that Apple isn't in my best interest then I'll switch devices. But I have no incentive to adopt a more developer friendly workflow when it's been broadly anonymous developers that have been sucking up and spying on me every chance they get. If some innocent apps get caught in the cross fire, it's unfortunate.
  - echelon 6y ago
    I don't care what you think, honestly. (And don't misjudge my tone here - I mean this in the friendliest way.) I care about the fact that the US government has let this gorilla grow into King Kong and start throwing us into walls and trampling on our industry. If this trend continues, the giants will swallow us completely. Our industry has always been special, and the barriers have historically been low. Now that Apple enjoys a position at the top, they're putting up fences and walls for the rest of us. Apple is shitting into all of our faces, and we're being told to just take it. Meanwhile, you celebrate that. Please don't.
    - zepto 6y ago
      It’s your choice whether you operate within the walls Apple has put up. Why do you remain within them?
      - kaba0 6y ago
        Because if you want to enter the mobile market you HAVE to? This “the customers will choose the best” thing has never been true, even in its source. The context is “in a fair competition between competing products” (which won’t be true again, because humans are not rational - otherwise marketing would not matter) Also, it’s not like I have any chance ever to compete with Apple, even if I were to be the cleverest people on Earth.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

echelon 6y ago

> incredible anti-Apple rhetoric And it's crazy you think that's wrong! Stop worshipping the device in your pocket and protect our industry! Apple is a foe. Living in their ecosystem is like living in a Communist dictatorship. Say or do the wrong thing and they take your app own to the gallows and kill it. Do. Not. Worship. This.

zepto 6y ago
Do you own an Apple device? Have you ever lived in a communist dictatorship or even visited one? I have
- echelon 6y ago
  > Do you own an Apple device? Yes. > Have you ever lived in a communist dictatorship or even visited one? Yes. I spent a year studying Chinese in Shanghai. My partner is from Vietnam. What's your point? I stand behind my analogy. Apple is a horrible company and is ruining our industry.
  - zepto 6y ago
    Why do you own an Apple device?
    - kaba0 6y ago
      Not op, but hardware and UX-wise they do a great job. Photo-taking is especially good which is pretty important on a mobile. Also, their phones will be supported for a remarkable number of years, while retaining their price on second hand markets. It doesn’t excuse them from letting me use my phone as I want to.
      - zepto 6y ago
        The op should respond since they seem to feel imprisoned, but you do not. It sounds like you just like the quality of their product. Apple does let you use the phone as you want to. They just didn’t design it to do the things you say you’d prefer. I assume that you wouldn’t have made the trade off if you didn’t think it was worth it. Liking a product enough to buy while wanting it to be designed a little differently is what we do with almost all purchases. That is pretty much the opposite of living in a communist dictatorship.
        kaba0 6y ago
        Well, I don’t feel inprisoned, but nor am I completely happy with this phone. iSH is really great, and is a must - and so would several other app which can’t exist here.
        zepto 6y ago
        I presume those apps can exist on Android. The point here is that you can actually get everting you want, just not with Apple’s design.
nemothekid 6y ago
No, the fundamental error you are making is you, the developer, are incorrectly assuming, that I, the user, cares about whether Apple lets you make money or do whatever they want on my device. Even the way the worded your response you are making a plea as a developer to a user "hey take your app own to the gallows and kill it.". I don't have an app. What I do understand is; given the last 20 years of computing is that developers broadly cannot be trusted to run software on my device and I don't have the time to inspect the source code of every app. What I have decided is that I can trust Apple to be the gatekeeper to my device and if you can't play by their rules you won't have access to their official distribution processes. If I, the user, decide that Apple isn't in my best interest then I'll switch devices. But I have no incentive to adopt a more developer friendly workflow when it's been broadly anonymous developers that have been sucking up and spying on me every chance they get. If some innocent apps get caught in the cross fire, it's unfortunate.
- echelon 6y ago
  I don't care what you think, honestly. (And don't misjudge my tone here - I mean this in the friendliest way.) I care about the fact that the US government has let this gorilla grow into King Kong and start throwing us into walls and trampling on our industry. If this trend continues, the giants will swallow us completely. Our industry has always been special, and the barriers have historically been low. Now that Apple enjoys a position at the top, they're putting up fences and walls for the rest of us. Apple is shitting into all of our faces, and we're being told to just take it. Meanwhile, you celebrate that. Please don't.
  - zepto 6y ago
    It’s your choice whether you operate within the walls Apple has put up. Why do you remain within them?
    - kaba0 6y ago
      Because if you want to enter the mobile market you HAVE to? This “the customers will choose the best” thing has never been true, even in its source. The context is “in a fair competition between competing products” (which won’t be true again, because humans are not rational - otherwise marketing would not matter) Also, it’s not like I have any chance ever to compete with Apple, even if I were to be the cleverest people on Earth.